M1911 Barrel Bushing Q

[sheepherder]

Back in the 80's, there was a company selling a M1911 barrel bushing with a Teflon o-ring in it. The bushing was oversize (compared to the 'ideal' bushing ID) and cut internally for a {I think) 1/16" Teflon o-ring. The barrel rode on the Teflon and never wore and always returned to the same position.

I bought one, IIRC it came with 10 o-rings. I sold the pistol with the Teflon o-ring setup, and promptly forgot who made it.

Mario's comment on fitted bushings reminded me of mine. I've used Micro bushings, hand reamed to exact fit for individual barrels, but that Teflon bushing was the slickest setup I ever owned.

Anyone remember them? Anyone know who made them, and if they're still available?

I know that some inventions get bought by Big Companies and then buried because they have too much invested in their own product and don't want the competition...I have a hunch that is what happened here...

[DonVoigt]

I missed that innovation completely.

[kurusu]

Well, One thing I remember, but not 1911 related. Heckler & Koch USP .45 tactical had an o-ring on the barrel front. A friend of mine had one, and it was stupidly accurate.

[sheepherder]

Ace Hardware now stocks assorted Teflon o-rings. I'm tempted to search for a solid M1911 bushing and convert it.

Except that I also favor the Series 70 collet bushing. Yeah, now I remember - that was why I sold the AMT Hardballer with the Teflon bushing.

[Olle]

So they never wore out, but still came with 10 O-rings?

It sounds like a good idea, but the fact that they're not on the market anymore probably means that they were not all that great. Or did you see a noticeable improvement?

BTW: I just came up with an easy way to custom fit a barrel bushing. I had a gun with a loose bushing, so I dug through my treasure chest and found one that was very nice and tight in the slide, but too tight for the barrel.

I have made an attachment so I can mount a Dremel on the compound rest on the lathe, so I put the bushing in the chuck, a grinding bit in the Dremel, and ground the bore in the bushing until it fit snugly. I just worked the carriage back and forth until the bore was smooth, tried the barrel, moved the compound rest 1/1000", worked it again and so on until it had the right fit. It only took minutes to do, and the barrel is now nice and snug in the bushing.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Olle

So they never wore out, but still came with 10 O-rings?...did you see a noticeable improvement?

I'm not sure about either of those...The barrel chamber on the AMT was so out-of-spec that it 'bulged' the ejected cases...A Series 70 Colt Gold Cup came up and I sold or traded the AMT...

BTW: I just came up with an easy way to custom fit a barrel bushing.

Sounds good! I had a 4-flute adjustable reamer that I used to use...It was tapered as well as adjustable so I could just keep hand reaming until I had a good fit...

I haven't seen it lately...A lot of my tools grew legs...

[Olle]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Sounds good! I had a 4-flute adjustable reamer that I used to use...It was tapered as well as adjustable so I could just keep hand reaming until I had a good fit...

I haven't seen it lately...A lot of my tools grew legs...

I was thinking about buying a reamer, but it would be one of those expensive tools I only use once or twice a year. It would probably be cheaper to take it to the machine shop than buying a quality reamer of that size?

It wouldn't take but a few minutes to mock up the Dremel and take a picture if you want to see the setup. It's a bit wobbly, but it works surprisingly well for very light grinding like this. You only need it for the final fit anyway, if you need to remove a lot of material you just use the boring bar first. The only drawback is that grinding on the lathe makes a horrible mess, so you really need to cover the ways and clean/lube everything when you're done.

[Sergio Natali]

HK made a pistol with some sort of buckle at the front that prevented any wobbling of the barrel inside the slide, but at the moment I don' recall any 1911 with a Teflon o-ring.

[alanint]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Ace Hardware now stocks assorted Teflon o-rings. I'm tempted to search for a solid M1911 bushing and convert it.

Except that I also favor the Series 70 collet bushing. Yeah, now I remember - that was why I sold the AMT Hardballer with the Teflon bushing.

If by collet bushing you mean the ones with the springy "fingers" that gripped the barrel, they were discontinued because the fingers had a tendency to break off and seriously gum up the works inside the pistol, rendering it inoperable.

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by luger.parabellum

HK made a pistol with some sort of buckle at the front that prevented any wobbling of the barrel inside the slide, but at the moment I don' recall any 1911 with a Teflon o-ring.

Sergio,

About the HK, look 5 posts up from yours.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by alanint

If by collet bushing you mean the ones with the springy "fingers" that gripped the barrel, they were discontinued because the fingers had a tendency to break off and seriously gum up the works inside the pistol, rendering it inoperable.

I've heard that urban myth too. Over the last 3 or 4 decades, I've owned 5 Colt Series 70's w/collet bushings (still have 2) and fitted a 6th bushing to a generic M1911. Never had any problems whatsoever. It's never anyone with firsthand experience writing about it; it's always "my wife's brother's best friend's gardener's cousin's son-in-law's drill sergeant's father" whose bushing broke.

I've never seen any recall notice in any NRA publications or gun magazines, or any announcement from Colt. To my knowledge there has never been any magazine article about the bushings breaking. I would suspect the change back to solid bushing was a cost saving measure.

I would further guess that the Teflon bushing was dropped for the same reason. Too little demand for a more expensive bushing.

On the reamer - They are actually pretty cheap, even for a use-once. I've added one to my next tool purchase list. (It's the 17/32" to 19/32" size)

[Sergio Natali]

Originally Posted by kurusu

Well, One thing I remember, but not 1911 related. Heckler & Koch USP .45 tactical had an o-ring on the barrel front. A friend of mine had one, and it was stupidly accurate.

Originally Posted by sheepherder

I've heard that urban myth too. Over the last 3 or 4 decades, I've owned 5 Colt Series 70's w/collet bushings (still have 2) and fitted a 6th bushing to a generic M1911. Never had any problems whatsoever. It's never anyone with firsthand experience writing about it; it's always "my wife's brother's best friend's gardener's cousin's son-in-law's drill sergeant's father" whose bushing broke.

I've never seen any recall notice in any NRA publications or gun magazines, or any announcement from Colt. To my knowledge there has never been any magazine article about the bushings breaking. I would suspect the change back to solid bushing was a cost saving measure.

I would further guess that the Teflon bushing was dropped for the same reason. Too little demand for a more expensive bushing.

On the reamer - They are actually pretty cheap, even for a use-once. I've added one to my next tool purchase list.

I owned a COLT GOLD CUP NATIONAL MATCH I used it only a few times at the range, then I put it in my safe where it remained for several years, that "collet bushing" was a pain in the neck as apparently it was fairly easy to break it while field stripping the pistol.
I ended trading the pistol not too long ago (and repented straight away). It's still for sale with a gunshop near here.

[alanint]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

I've heard that urban myth too. Over the last 3 or 4 decades, I've owned 5 Colt Series 70's w/collet bushings (still have 2) and fitted a 6th bushing to a generic M1911. Never had any problems whatsoever. It's never anyone with firsthand experience writing about it; it's always "my wife's brother's best friend's gardener's cousin's son-in-law's drill sergeant's father" whose bushing broke.

I've never seen any recall notice in any NRA publications or gun magazines, or any announcement from Colt. To my knowledge there has never been any magazine article about the bushings breaking. I would suspect the change back to solid bushing was a cost saving measure.

A quick google search reveals a whole lot of discussion about the disadvantages of the collet bushing.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...bushing+issues

[mrerick]

I bought a Colt Combat Elite (1991 vintage) several years ago that had the collet bushing.

It turned out to be a project gun since a prior owner had "customized" it to the point that the safety didn't function properly.

I ended up replacing the barrel, bushing, and all the action components with new products from Cylinder and Slide (action) and Ed Brown (barrel and matched bushing).

Now it's a very nice pistol, and I got the experience of fitting M1911a1 components.

I can see why Colt found the collet bushing attractive. It reduced fitting time and ensured a tight lockup.

I've heard horror stories of the collet fingers breaking off inside the slide, and making disassembly practically impossible. As mentioned above, I haven't found any concrete experiences involving the problem.

In any case, the precision fit of the Ed Brown barrel and bushing made a very accurate gun.

I have a spare collet bushing should anyone need one...

[alanint]

I love my Les Baer Premier II full sized pistol. The fit and finish is so precise that gimmicks such as full-length guide rods, collet or O-ring bushings, etc. are unnecessary.

She shoots way better than I can!

[mrerick]

I've had the similar experience with a semi-custom Specialist from Dan Wesson. Remarkable precision in a production pistol...

That said... nothing like a Les Bahr or Wilson...

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by mrerick

I have a spare collet bushing should anyone need one...

I have a couple generic .45's that I'd like a collet bushing for...PM sent.

[Olle]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

I've heard that urban myth too.

It is also mentioned in the Kuhnhausen manuals, so I don't think it's an urban legend. IIRC, the problem was that they required more precisely machined slides, as they were sensitive to misalignment. If a standard bushing is misaligned, there's usually enough slop in the slide for the barrel to straighten it up, but in a collet bushing it might bend (and eventually break) the fingers instead. Something like that anyway, I can look it up if anybody is interested.

Kuhnhausen recommends replacing them with a solid bushing, but it's "for good measure" so there's no telling how common this problem really was.

[mrerick]

PM sent to Rich.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Olle

...anyway, I can look it up if anybody is interested...

I'm interested. Others here must be or this thread would have died a natural death...

The comment about it breaking while being removed is new to me.

I just this last couple of months got a couple 1911's back from being blued. Marc says his bushing is a stainless one. I'm not sure I really want to add stainless to an all-blue .45...