Halo around 1917

vernonsmith · 10-09-2009, 09:36 AM

Is the halo around my DWM 1917 normal? It actually looks bad under the flashlight from the camera?

alanint · 10-09-2009, 11:51 AM

While halos on barrel serial numbers are normal, I have never seen one as exagerated as yours.
Is the finish on the gun entirely original? If it is, then I see no reason to doubt the halo
If the finish is at all questionable, I would venture to say that perhaps a previous owner heard that collectors look for halos and decided to "freshen" the halo a bit to enhance the gun's curb appeal

George Anderson · 10-09-2009, 12:31 PM

Nothing surprises me on pistols made in 1916 or 1917.

vernonsmith · 10-09-2009, 12:50 PM

It only looks like this under macro shot taking at really close range with flash. If you are looking with your naked eyes it's just normal halos like those found on any other Lugers. I think the flash intensified it a bit.

alvin · 10-09-2009, 06:58 PM

The witness mark should show discoloration as well. Have a picture?

vernonsmith · 10-09-2009, 08:23 PM

You mean the 'line'? I haven't taken down the pistol yet but will post pics of everything inside as soon as I have a chance to take it down.

Mauser720 · 10-09-2009, 11:23 PM

What do the experts think of these halos?

In my opinion, the halos seem to extend to the right of the "7"; the "0"; and the "3"

If a person were right handed and applying something to the metal to remove the blue and create the impression of a halo, they may have started with the first number, perhaps using a cotton "Q-Tip" and dabbed something on each of these first three numbers. This could explain why the three halos on each of these first three numbers tend to expand to the right side of each of the three numbers. In other words, the fluid would have followed the "Q-Tip" from left to right.

Now look at the last number, the number "1"

It has a halo, but notice that the bottom of the number "1" has no halo at all showing in the photograph. How could the bottom of the number "1" have somehow avoided showing any halo? Or is this just the way the light is shining in the picture?

Or am I just being overly suspicious?

Ron Wood · 10-09-2009, 11:57 PM

The halo on this serial number is without a doubt very pronounced, but as George stated: "Nothing surprises me on pistols made in 1916 or 1917". When dissecting the halo details, also observe the small details that would be difficult to create by micro bead blasting or dabbing with "Q-Tips". The indentation to the left of the leading "7" or the fine detail between the "0" and the "3" is indicative of either the hand of a master forger or the natural result of metal stamping. With such a common variant as this Luger, what would be gained by forging the halo?

vernonsmith · 10-10-2009, 04:12 AM

Hi all, very much appreciated with all your expert's invaluable opinions. I managed to take some day time pics on the gun again here is another view of the same area in daylight. I can't see anything unusual just some faint area of halos around the numberings. But somehow the flash intensified everything and may be revealed some dark secrets behind this?

vernonsmith · 10-10-2009, 04:16 AM

I have managed to take some pic of the partial witness mark too, but not yet taken down or field strip the gun. You can also see some halos around the 'line' area.

Mauser720 · 10-10-2009, 08:53 AM

Mr Wood - Thank you for taking the time to provide your excellent explanation of this particular halo.

Vernonsmith - Wow, what a difference between the flash and the daylight pictures! This certainly illustrates the importance of lighting when taking pictures.

10-09-2009, 09:36 AM	#1
vernonsmith User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 80 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Halo around 1917 Is the halo around my DWM 1917 normal? It actually looks bad under the flashlight from the camera?

10-09-2009, 11:23 PM	#7
Mauser720 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 535 Thanks: 18 Thanked 49 Times in 33 Posts	What do the experts think of these halos? In my opinion, the halos seem to extend to the right of the "7"; the "0"; and the "3" If a person were right handed and applying something to the metal to remove the blue and create the impression of a halo, they may have started with the first number, perhaps using a cotton "Q-Tip" and dabbed something on each of these first three numbers. This could explain why the three halos on each of these first three numbers tend to expand to the right side of each of the three numbers. In other words, the fluid would have followed the "Q-Tip" from left to right. Now look at the last number, the number "1" It has a halo, but notice that the bottom of the number "1" has no halo at all showing in the photograph. How could the bottom of the number "1" have somehow avoided showing any halo? Or is this just the way the light is shining in the picture? Or am I just being overly suspicious? __________________ Mauser720 - Ron "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it."

10-09-2009, 11:57 PM	#8
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	The halo on this serial number is without a doubt very pronounced, but as George stated: "Nothing surprises me on pistols made in 1916 or 1917". When dissecting the halo details, also observe the small details that would be difficult to create by micro bead blasting or dabbing with "Q-Tips". The indentation to the left of the leading "7" or the fine detail between the "0" and the "3" is indicative of either the hand of a master forger or the natural result of metal stamping. With such a common variant as this Luger, what would be gained by forging the halo? __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-10-2009, 08:53 AM	#11
Mauser720 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 535 Thanks: 18 Thanked 49 Times in 33 Posts	Mr Wood - Thank you for taking the time to provide your excellent explanation of this particular halo. Vernonsmith - Wow, what a difference between the flash and the daylight pictures! This certainly illustrates the importance of lighting when taking pictures. __________________ Mauser720 - Ron "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it."

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10-09-2009, 11:51 AM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	While halos on barrel serial numbers are normal, I have never seen one as exagerated as yours. Is the finish on the gun entirely original? If it is, then I see no reason to doubt the halo If the finish is at all questionable, I would venture to say that perhaps a previous owner heard that collectors look for halos and decided to "freshen" the halo a bit to enhance the gun's curb appeal

10-09-2009, 12:31 PM	#3
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	Nothing surprises me on pistols made in 1916 or 1917.

10-09-2009, 12:50 PM	#4
vernonsmith User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 80 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	It only looks like this under macro shot taking at really close range with flash. If you are looking with your naked eyes it's just normal halos like those found on any other Lugers. I think the flash intensified it a bit.

10-09-2009, 06:58 PM	#5
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	The witness mark should show discoloration as well. Have a picture?

10-09-2009, 08:23 PM	#6
vernonsmith User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 80 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	You mean the 'line'? I haven't taken down the pistol yet but will post pics of everything inside as soon as I have a chance to take it down.

10-10-2009, 04:12 AM	#9
vernonsmith User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 80 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Hi all, very much appreciated with all your expert's invaluable opinions. I managed to take some day time pics on the gun again here is another view of the same area in daylight. I can't see anything unusual just some faint area of halos around the numberings. But somehow the flash intensified everything and may be revealed some dark secrets behind this?

10-10-2009, 04:16 AM	#10
vernonsmith User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 80 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I have managed to take some pic of the partial witness mark too, but not yet taken down or field strip the gun. You can also see some halos around the 'line' area.