Help! First Day At The Range Ended In Despair!!!

[fantomark]

CIAO!

Here is the Italian novice again!

Well, I must say I am not at all happy with my first start as a Luger shooter!

I recently bought my first P08 ( a 1918 DWM, all matching, though with barrel sleeved to 7.65 Para, to comply with Italian Regulations).

Yesterday, full of hope and enthusiasm, I took it to the my local range (near Milano) for the first time!
Previously I had fired Swiss made Lugers at several ranges in Switzerland and I found them a real joy to fire: very accurate and working like Swiss (!!) clockwork.

So you can easily imagine my mood when my first attempt at firing my long wished for and at last bought (at , at least for my pockets, a dear price) P08 ended in despair!

Problems experieced (in at least 60% of attempted shots) were as follows:

1 - round chambered but pistol would not fire. After pulling toggle to extract round and chambering a new one, the new one fired.

2 - after firing, toggle would remain partly raised , and I had to gentlly push it down to resume firing.

3 - Finally, when magazine was empty, toggle assembly did not come back as it should , and had to be hand operated.

Ammo was FIOCCHI, which here is generally considered the best 7.65 para on the market.


(The only redeeming feature was that the (few) rounds I did manage to fire went on target really accurately).

After shamefully replacing my P08 in its case , I left the range in a rather despondent and gloomy mood, among jeers of fellows shooters suggesting I should exchange my beloved but useless P08 with a Beretta!

Now I will of course take the gun back to the dealer asking for a check up, but this guy happens to be now on holidays until September 1st, and I am now on hot bricks and I would be really grateful to any membres volunteering a possible diagnosis.

Before taking the P08 to the range I did inspect the gun, carrying out basic disassembly, and I did not see any obvious fault (however I did not push myself as far as removial/inspection of firing pin, spring and guide).
I must admit that before disassembly I forgot to remove the magazine first, but when I put it back in place and started again, disassembly and reassebly were not a problem.

Well that's all for now. I will keep my eyes glued to the PC screen waiting for Help!

Ciao!
Marco (Milano)

[Steinar]

Marco, it could be a number of things. Your experience is not at all uncommon I'm afraid.

First I suggest that you try a more firm grip when shooting, then try another magazine. (It could be the magazine spring that causes it.)
If that does not help, change the main spring to one that is slightly weaker or change your type of ammunition.
Hopefully others will jump in with some useful advice for you as well. Good luck with it!

[paolo.orange]

Ciao Marco,
c'mon, ...Rome wasn't built in a day and you should expect some minor problem from an old lady....also from the younger...

Problem 1): I assume that firing pin is in good shape as well as the firing spring. It sounds like the disconnector didn't come back to the firing position. Take a look at the topic "Cocking problem? ". Very easy to fix.

Problem 2): Many things can happer here. Take a look at the topic "Toggle does not return to battery "

Problem 3): this could be little more tricky. I would say:
a) recoil spring too stiff
b) magazine spring too weak (did you have failures to feed)
c) magazine bottom or hold open worn
d) the magazine is dirt and its spring can't push the follower strong enought
Given that fact that you shoot commercial Fiocchi I wouldn't think about weak ammo

In "Repairs, Restoration & Refinishing " you can find all the problems we had with our lady , giust make a "search" and you will find the solutions to your problems.

Have fun and don't blame your Luger.

P.

[Lugerdoc]

Marco, As Steinar said above the least invasive things to try first are a new MecGar magazine and/or a different brand of ammo. Should these fail to correct the problem, you are probably looking at changing the recoil spring and a trigger job. If your dealer will do this for you as part of the sales deal, I'd wait for him to do it, as here in the states you'd be looking at about $100 labor and shipping cost. TH

[fantomark]

thanks to all!
MARCO

[the gunman]

Remove the firing pin check for heavy grease or built up dirt in toggle. Clean well and reassemble.

[Vlim]

Hi Marco,

Welcome to the cruel world of luger shooting. It takes some effort to get many lugers back into shape after years of abuse, wear and neglect. As mentioned in the thread, most fixes are not that hard.

As your barrel has been relined to 7.65, there is a chance that the mainspring was not adapted to the 7.65's characteristics, so you may want to investigate that issue when the other checks don't present the right results.

As a consolation: I've fired all my lugers and found that some needed quite some work to get them going again. Mostly it's finding the right magazine, swapping out trigger plates (and levers), and replacing worn out springs (extractor, ejector, mainspring). One gun even needed breaking in firing, as it had been restored to new in box conditions and the tolerances were a bit too tight. Not bad for a 70-year old gun.

The amount of flak received from fellow shooters who were quick to judge the luger but had never actually fired one was unbelievable, but it changed to respect pretty quickly

[Dwight Gruber]

2. Since the barrel has been sleeved and the chamber re-made, have a gunsmith check to make sure that headspace has been properly adjusted.

--Dwight

[paolo.orange]

+1

Make a test:
remove the firing pin
paint with a felt pen the ball of an actual round,
load the round in the magazine,
pull the toggle and chamber the round
eject the round

any sign on the ball of the lands?

My P08 has been headspaced at the minumum and some TC balls touch the lands.

Just my 0.02 euro

[fantomark]

TO ALL FORUM FRIENDS REPLYING TO MY MESSAGES

Ciao!

Thanks to all!
Happy to say thet frst part of problem at least seems to be solved!
I tried on the magazine of my second Luger recently purchased (a 9mm 1921 DWM - I will send photos of this for comments in a separate Thread).
With this magazine the toggle does remain open, when fully cocked by hand , and returns in its proper position, when released (after removal of magazine - with an unloaded pistol).
When comparing the 2 magazines side by side, it is quite obvious that the magazine spring of my 7.65 was too weak (soft).
The problem is that the non- working magazine seems to be the best for both guns from a historical point of view, however - having a wooden base plug (the one for my 1921 DWM is metal, : I believe that all P08s had a wooden magazine base plug until the early 1930's).
So if I return this to the dealer, I am likely to be given as a replacement a new magazine, good for service but with a plastic or at best a metal base plug!.
(any suggestions where I can find any working wooden base plugs magazines, by the way?)

Unfortunately, I can not say if this has also cured the second part of problem (ie: toggle requiring a gentle pressure from the top to return in its "flat" position after firing), since my local firing range is closed for summer holidays until 25 August. I'll be there as soon as they reopen and will report back to the Forum.

However in the meantime, I think that the guess about the mainspring is likely to be right.
After removing grip for visual inspection, I compared my spring side by dide with those of 2 original Swiss made 7.65 owned by a fellow shooting enthusiast: the spring on mine definitely DOES look stronger than those on the original 7.65s!!
In fact this is evident even by simply counting of the coils: on mine there are 21 coils, while on the Swiss ones there are only 17/18.
My friend explained that when 9mm Lugers were converted into 7.65 to comply with previous Italian regulations forbidding civilian ownership of any 9mm pistols , sometimes the springs where replaced (or shortened) and sometimes they just forgot about it (!?).
In my case, obiously mainspring was not replaced!
Now , my question is: can anybody give me an adress where to purchase an original/appropriate mainspring for a 7.65?

Alternatively, I might try to remove my mainspring and cut a couple of coils to make it weaker, but I am reluctant do do that , if I can find the proper spare part!

Thanks again to everybody - The Forum is indeed a vital resource for all Luger enthusiast, and especially for new recruits like me!!

Ciao!

Marco

[Karl]

Marco,

I use the nickled Mec Gar magazines and replace the plastic plug with a wooden plug. New wooden plugs are availiable from a number of sources. New springs are available from Wolff springs or Tom Heller, "Lugerdoc" on the forum. KFS