Number of Model 1914 Navy's made

Dan Clemons · 12-17-2002, 10:52 AM

This is such an interesting topic, it deserves it's own subject.

John Walter in his book "Luger" writes, Ã¢??One additional piece of information in the history of the Navy should be considered. When the contract was placed with DWM in August 1916, a monthly delivery rate of 800 guns was required. The Kiel reports indicate that no guns were received in 1916 until June, when 614 arrived; thereafter, the monthly deliveries were 820,266, none, 200, 100 and 400. The June-August deliveries were the last of the prewar order, which means that only 700 third issue guns were acquired by the Navy in 1916; the serial numbers, however, suggest at least 7750!Ã¢?Â

Ã¢??Of course, many of the guns delivered in 1917 may have been numbered and dated in the previous yearÃ¢??s output. Genuine Navy third-issue pistols are dated either 1916 or 1917 yet more than four thousand were delivered from January to April 1918, completing the August 1916 contract. 7,926 had been delivered out of the 8,000 ordered, making nonsense of the estimates as high as thirty-thousand.Ã¢?Â Page 211 The Luger Book

Based on how hard it is to find an authentic third issue Navy, I think he has to be right.

Shootin' for facks!

Dan

Big Norm · 12-17-2002, 04:19 PM

I am not certain, but I think that the chamber date was determined by contract date between the navy and DWM. The delivery date had no relevance. I think that the 1918 delivered navies satisfied a 1916 contract, so these numbers were included in the 1916 count and were chamber dated 1916. There are no official chamber dated 1918's. Anyway, thats is my understanding and I have been wrong before (I think it was early 1958) and I may be wrong again ... someday.
Big Norm

Navy · 12-17-2002, 04:24 PM

I have knowledge of and have seen photos of what purports to be a 1918 chamber dated Navy. I will have the opportunity to examine the pistol in person at the SOS/Gunday show in Louisville in February. Needless to sat, I am sceptical and the photos were not fully convincing.

Hope to be able to photograph digitally at SOS.

Tom A.
Who doesn't believe in Santa anymore

larry · 12-17-2002, 08:02 PM

Tom
Hate to be a dummy but what is the SOS show?
larry

Navy · 12-18-2002, 11:15 AM

SOS =Show of Shows, a major gun and militaria extravaganza held in Louisville KY each year. I will be there with my Navy Luger pals Derek Seltzer, Chuck Duke, and Leo Lavalle.

Tom A.

Big Norm · 12-19-2002, 02:28 AM

Tom A,
too bad that my motorhome is winterized and in storage. I sure would like to meet you and Derek. You saved me from buying a 1904 repro navy and I would like to buy you a coffee. Isn't there some other big gun shows in Louisville? I thought that there was one in the summertime at some fairgrounds.
Big Norm

larry · 12-19-2002, 10:08 AM

Tom A
Thanks for explaining the SOS. That sounds like major fun to me. If I can make arrangements to be there, what would be the possibility of meeting you and the other Navy Luger guys.
larry

ken d · 12-19-2002, 08:04 PM

Tom A, Big Norm, Larry:

There could be some confusion. There will be two shows at the Louisville Fairgrounds, the same week-end in Feb. Show of Shows (SOS), Feb 20-23, hosted by the Ohio Valley Military Collectors (OVMC). National Gun Day Gun Show (NGD) Feb 22-23, by Ron Dicksen. Although they are next door to each other, separate admission is required for each show. Quite a few dealers set up at SOS for Feb 20-21 and then move to NGD Feb 22-23. Should be a lot of Lugers available. Hope this helps.

Regards,

Ken D

larry · 12-20-2002, 11:20 AM

Ken D
Thanks for clarification, that would be quite confusing for one not aware of the two shows. Which show is the best for Lugers or do you attend both?
larry

ken d · 12-20-2002, 06:23 PM

Larry

Both are good shows. Since I am local, I usually just walk around the SOS, Thurs and Fri, and then have a table at the NGD show, Sat and Sun. If I were comming from out of town I would try for the SOS show Friday and/or the NGD show on Sat.

Regards,

Ken D

larry · 12-20-2002, 10:36 PM

Ken D
Thanks. That would be the logical thing to do. Do you have any Navy Lugers?
larry

Big Norm · 12-21-2002, 04:18 PM

I would love to go to these shows, but I got my war wagon winterized and in storage. Plus, I just bought a Persian artillery rig and I am low on loot. I haven't received it yet but I am sitting on pins and needles hoping it comes in time for Christmas. I don't think it will but I am still hoping. I can not wait to see what it really looks like in my sweaty, shaking hands.
MERRY CHISTMAS to all of you.
Big Norm

ken d · 12-21-2002, 08:18 PM

Larry:

I have three--altered 06,1916 and 1917.

Merry Xmas all

Ken D

Edward Tinker · 12-21-2002, 09:36 PM

Big Norm, make sure you post pictures of this new baby of yours!!

12-17-2002, 10:52 AM	#1
Dan Clemons User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Grants Pass, OR Posts: 184 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Number of Model 1914 Navy's made This is such an interesting topic, it deserves it's own subject. John Walter in his book "Luger" writes, Ã¢??One additional piece of information in the history of the Navy should be considered. When the contract was placed with DWM in August 1916, a monthly delivery rate of 800 guns was required. The Kiel reports indicate that no guns were received in 1916 until June, when 614 arrived; thereafter, the monthly deliveries were 820,266, none, 200, 100 and 400. The June-August deliveries were the last of the prewar order, which means that only 700 third issue guns were acquired by the Navy in 1916; the serial numbers, however, suggest at least 7750!Ã¢?Â Ã¢??Of course, many of the guns delivered in 1917 may have been numbered and dated in the previous yearÃ¢??s output. Genuine Navy third-issue pistols are dated either 1916 or 1917 yet more than four thousand were delivered from January to April 1918, completing the August 1916 contract. 7,926 had been delivered out of the 8,000 ordered, making nonsense of the estimates as high as thirty-thousand.Ã¢?Â Page 211 The Luger Book Based on how hard it is to find an authentic third issue Navy, I think he has to be right. Shootin' for facks! Dan __________________ Loving Lugers

12-21-2002, 09:36 PM	#14
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Big Norm, make sure you post pictures of this new baby of yours!! __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-17-2002, 04:19 PM	#2
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	I am not certain, but I think that the chamber date was determined by contract date between the navy and DWM. The delivery date had no relevance. I think that the 1918 delivered navies satisfied a 1916 contract, so these numbers were included in the 1916 count and were chamber dated 1916. There are no official chamber dated 1918's. Anyway, thats is my understanding and I have been wrong before (I think it was early 1958) and I may be wrong again ... someday. Big Norm

12-17-2002, 04:24 PM	#3
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	I have knowledge of and have seen photos of what purports to be a 1918 chamber dated Navy. I will have the opportunity to examine the pistol in person at the SOS/Gunday show in Louisville in February. Needless to sat, I am sceptical and the photos were not fully convincing. Hope to be able to photograph digitally at SOS. Tom A. Who doesn't believe in Santa anymore

12-17-2002, 08:02 PM	#4
larry User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 106 Thanks: 26 Thanked 15 Times in 8 Posts	Tom Hate to be a dummy but what is the SOS show? larry

12-18-2002, 11:15 AM	#5
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	SOS =Show of Shows, a major gun and militaria extravaganza held in Louisville KY each year. I will be there with my Navy Luger pals Derek Seltzer, Chuck Duke, and Leo Lavalle. Tom A.

12-19-2002, 02:28 AM	#6
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Tom A, too bad that my motorhome is winterized and in storage. I sure would like to meet you and Derek. You saved me from buying a 1904 repro navy and I would like to buy you a coffee. Isn't there some other big gun shows in Louisville? I thought that there was one in the summertime at some fairgrounds. Big Norm

12-19-2002, 10:08 AM	#7
larry User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 106 Thanks: 26 Thanked 15 Times in 8 Posts	Tom A Thanks for explaining the SOS. That sounds like major fun to me. If I can make arrangements to be there, what would be the possibility of meeting you and the other Navy Luger guys. larry

12-19-2002, 08:04 PM	#8
ken d Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: louisville ky Posts: 277 Thanks: 31 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts	Tom A, Big Norm, Larry: There could be some confusion. There will be two shows at the Louisville Fairgrounds, the same week-end in Feb. Show of Shows (SOS), Feb 20-23, hosted by the Ohio Valley Military Collectors (OVMC). National Gun Day Gun Show (NGD) Feb 22-23, by Ron Dicksen. Although they are next door to each other, separate admission is required for each show. Quite a few dealers set up at SOS for Feb 20-21 and then move to NGD Feb 22-23. Should be a lot of Lugers available. Hope this helps. Regards, Ken D

12-20-2002, 11:20 AM	#9
larry User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 106 Thanks: 26 Thanked 15 Times in 8 Posts	Ken D Thanks for clarification, that would be quite confusing for one not aware of the two shows. Which show is the best for Lugers or do you attend both? larry

12-20-2002, 06:23 PM	#10
ken d Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: louisville ky Posts: 277 Thanks: 31 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts	Larry Both are good shows. Since I am local, I usually just walk around the SOS, Thurs and Fri, and then have a table at the NGD show, Sat and Sun. If I were comming from out of town I would try for the SOS show Friday and/or the NGD show on Sat. Regards, Ken D

12-20-2002, 10:36 PM	#11
larry User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 106 Thanks: 26 Thanked 15 Times in 8 Posts	Ken D Thanks. That would be the logical thing to do. Do you have any Navy Lugers? larry

12-21-2002, 04:18 PM	#12
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	I would love to go to these shows, but I got my war wagon winterized and in storage. Plus, I just bought a Persian artillery rig and I am low on loot. I haven't received it yet but I am sitting on pins and needles hoping it comes in time for Christmas. I don't think it will but I am still hoping. I can not wait to see what it really looks like in my sweaty, shaking hands. MERRY CHISTMAS to all of you. Big Norm

12-21-2002, 08:18 PM	#13
ken d Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: louisville ky Posts: 277 Thanks: 31 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts	Larry: I have three--altered 06,1916 and 1917. Merry Xmas all Ken D