Odd 1900 Swiss For Sale...

Pete Ebbink · 09-17-2003, 12:02 PM

This 1900 Swiss luger is now for sale on Guns Amgerica :

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976386288.htm

It is odd in that it has traits of a 1900, but has the new model extractor, and has the Swiss cross/shield on its forward toggle...

Ad says the gun's serial number is # 32xx. which would place the frame from a 1900 model made around 1904. Receiver and breech looks to be from a 1906 model. And the front toggle from a 1929 Bern...did not know such parts were that interchangeable...

Here is one photo, but more are shown on the G-A link above...

Parts guns or odd factory hybrid...???

p.s. Did notice in F. Datig's book, Monograph IV - The Swiss Variations 1897 - 1947" on page 72; a similar gun with all of these traits is shown with serial # 3822 which is captioned to have been in R. Shattuck's collection at that time of printing.

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Pete Ebbink · 09-18-2003, 04:28 PM

This gun is located at :

Elmira Arms Company
964 Pennsylvania Ave.
Elmira, NY 14904
607-731-6572
Fax: 607-734-0703

Any chance that a Luger Forum member might live nearby and could go over and take a closer look at this luger in person ?

The seller is more than willing to have an expert take a look and help him assess exactly what he has...

I have also invited the seller to join us here on the LF so that he might be able to read what others folks think about this gun...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Ron Wood · 09-18-2003, 06:11 PM

Pete,
I would opt for "odd factory hybrid" that may or may not have been made up for presentation or shooting award. The frame and rear toggle link are of the 1900 configuration (that is an assumption on the frame since it would need the toggle latch). The receiver may or may not be 1900. It could be 1906 long frame, but I am guessing it too is 1900 since it matches up so well with the 1900 rear togggle link. The overall length of a 1900 forward toggle link and breech block is the same as the 1906 and 1929, so they could be interchanged/swapped out. The barrel is probably a Swiss replacement since it has the Bernerprobe proof. A 1900 barrel would have been made by DWM.

The receiver looks like it goes with the 1906 breech block, but a 1900 receiver can be modified to look just like this one. The top rear of the chamber of a 1900 receiver would have to have that little cross chamfer and extractor cut made, but that is quite easy to do, particularly if the barrel is removed.

I think that the guys at Waffenfabrik Bern were feeling frisky and made up a couple of these out of parts on hand just to create an "improvement" on the 1900 and jazz it up a bit for some big wig or special order.

Pete Ebbink · 09-18-2003, 07:03 PM

Hello Ron,

Thanks so much for the info. filled reply.

I also did get a reply from Ralph Shattuck (in reply to my off-Forum e-mail...) and he did also mention he thought his (and possibly this one) might have been a presentation piece. He likes his more since it does not have the P-60 privatization release stamp as this one has...

I know there are 2-3 of those Bern 1906-to-1929 transitional lugers; with characteristics of both.

Does this 1900/1906/1929 have similar rarity and value status ? If so, this one for sale might be a bargin...(???)...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

09-17-2003, 12:02 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Odd 1900 Swiss For Sale... This 1900 Swiss luger is now for sale on Guns Amgerica : http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976386288.htm It is odd in that it has traits of a 1900, but has the new model extractor, and has the Swiss cross/shield on its forward toggle... Ad says the gun's serial number is # 32xx. which would place the frame from a 1900 model made around 1904. Receiver and breech looks to be from a 1906 model. And the front toggle from a 1929 Bern...did not know such parts were that interchangeable... Here is one photo, but more are shown on the G-A link above... Parts guns or odd factory hybrid...??? p.s. Did notice in F. Datig's book, Monograph IV - The Swiss Variations 1897 - 1947" on page 72; a similar gun with all of these traits is shown with serial # 3822 which is captioned to have been in R. Shattuck's collection at that time of printing. Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

09-18-2003, 06:11 PM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	Pete, I would opt for "odd factory hybrid" that may or may not have been made up for presentation or shooting award. The frame and rear toggle link are of the 1900 configuration (that is an assumption on the frame since it would need the toggle latch). The receiver may or may not be 1900. It could be 1906 long frame, but I am guessing it too is 1900 since it matches up so well with the 1900 rear togggle link. The overall length of a 1900 forward toggle link and breech block is the same as the 1906 and 1929, so they could be interchanged/swapped out. The barrel is probably a Swiss replacement since it has the Bernerprobe proof. A 1900 barrel would have been made by DWM. The receiver looks like it goes with the 1906 breech block, but a 1900 receiver can be modified to look just like this one. The top rear of the chamber of a 1900 receiver would have to have that little cross chamfer and extractor cut made, but that is quite easy to do, particularly if the barrel is removed. I think that the guys at Waffenfabrik Bern were feeling frisky and made up a couple of these out of parts on hand just to create an "improvement" on the 1900 and jazz it up a bit for some big wig or special order. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-18-2003, 04:28 PM	#2
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	This gun is located at : Elmira Arms Company 964 Pennsylvania Ave. Elmira, NY 14904 607-731-6572 Fax: 607-734-0703 Any chance that a Luger Forum member might live nearby and could go over and take a closer look at this luger in person ? The seller is more than willing to have an expert take a look and help him assess exactly what he has... I have also invited the seller to join us here on the LF so that he might be able to read what others folks think about this gun... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

09-18-2003, 07:03 PM	#4
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Ron, Thanks so much for the info. filled reply. I also did get a reply from Ralph Shattuck (in reply to my off-Forum e-mail...) and he did also mention he thought his (and possibly this one) might have been a presentation piece. He likes his more since it does not have the P-60 privatization release stamp as this one has... I know there are 2-3 of those Bern 1906-to-1929 transitional lugers; with characteristics of both. Does this 1900/1906/1929 have similar rarity and value status ? If so, this one for sale might be a bargin...(???)... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />