Swiss 06/24 ?

Dean762 · 06-27-2004, 12:13 AM

Hello folks. I just joined the forums here as I am going to be purchasing a Swiss luger for my collection of Swiss militaria sometime in the near future and need some tips. I want a Luger that is all Swiss production which I understand would be either the 06/24 or the 29. I like wood grips on a luger and the craftsmanship on the 24 looks better(maybe its just my prejudice with the plastic grips). What should I look for or look out for? Any thoughts from you fine folks? Who makes ammo in 30 luger by the way? And is that round as enemic as its made out to be? Im not really looking for a shooter. It has to be a collectable to suit may fancy but it would also have to be able to shoot or again I would loose interest. Thanks in advance for any help.

Pete Ebbink · 06-27-2004, 01:17 PM

Hello Dean,

Welcome aboard...!

Here is the V. Bobba book I suggest if you have more interest in learning about Swiss lugers. It usually runs $ 100 to 125 new...but is well worth the money.

It is written in both Italian and English text and has the most beautiful photos of Swiss lugers through their evolution. Many photos are of museum-quality pieces...and it gives many details and photos of the relevant details to look for in each Swiss luger model.

You are correct in considering a 1906/24 W+F Bern or a 1906/29 W+F Bern if you want a Swiss made pistol. The M1900 and M1906's were DWM-made with some of the M1900 being finished, only, in CH. The 1906/24 W+F Bern would be your best bet since you want wooden grips and a more "traditional" luger look.

You might also want to visit the Simspon web site...as they have offerings in Swiss lugers :

http://www.simpsonltd.com/LugerRoom/...iss_lugers.htm

The folks at FGS also have a Swiss luger section :

http://www.fgsinc.8m.com/catalog.html

A fellow named Stefan Mahrer in CH also sells Swiss lugers...if you want to go the importation route (i.e. do not forget it will be import stamped by the USA importer on your end...) :

http://www.swissdagger.com/

A word of caution : Many Swiss lugers have been arsenal refinished at Bern...and some by Waffenfabrik, USA...if you can seek out a factory original finish pistol or at least a Bern rework...that is the best bet.

p.s. I enjoy shooting the 7,65 mm or .30 cal round. It has a "punch" to it when it lets off that is quite enjoyable for target shooting. If you read some of the old posts in the "Shooting, Reloading and Malfunctions" section of the LF, you will see more info. on this round and some folks have found recent sources for cheaper prices...I usually end up spending $ 25-30 for a box of 50...

The following gun site specializes in Swiss weapons....lugers and pistol/revolver ammo are discussed in the "Other Swiss Arms" section, frequently :

http://pub18.ezboard.com/btheswissri...ommessageboard

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Dean762 · 06-27-2004, 03:05 PM

Thanks Pete. Some excellent information. Would you have a link or suggestion as to where to start looking for the Bobba book? Who actually manufactures the 30 luger ammo? Am I correct in assuming that the 06/24 would be rust blued?Therefore if I am able to see the inside of the gun I can tell if its been refinished. This is a truly exciting new world. I also really love the Sig P210 but of course this is not the place to discuss that.

Pete Ebbink · 06-27-2004, 03:35 PM

Hi Dean,

The folks at Simpson's list the book, new, for $ 125 on their web site. Go to the "Shop On Line" section, the "Book" tab, and on page 2, see item # BK-118 :

http://www.simpsonltd.com/

The 1906/24 W+F Bern should be internally "in the white" (up to a certain serial number) after which they were salt blued. I am away from my reference library, at the moment, and cannot give you the cut-over date...but if I recall...it happens around the same time/date when the "island" on the trigger plate went from 3/4 vertical height to full height...

Most of the Bern refinished pieces I have seen still have the interiors "in the white", from which I suspose Bern left the "white" intact when refinishing a piece. But some of the more skilled refinishers here in the USA and elsewhere can probably do a rust blue job while not touching the interior...so seeing an "in the white" frame is not always a 100% indication of true factory original finish uless other tell-tale signs (or lack of signs) are on the pistol as well.

I have seen some Waffenfabrik USA pieces (offered for sale as "original) that are salt blued and then carefully (but not thoroughly) polished on the inside surfaces...

I shoot Winchester .30 cal...with no troubles in my 2 - 30 cal. shooters.

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Dean762 · 06-27-2004, 04:07 PM

Thanks again Pete. If you happen onto the ref. material for the cut off ser. #s It would be appreciated. The Bobba book should have that also. Is the 06/24 OK to shoot? Not prone to breakage like the flat spring on the 1900? How available are the accessories and mags for these guns?

Pete Ebbink · 06-27-2004, 09:52 PM

Hi Dean,

Yes...the Bobba book would have this info. and lots more.

I am away from my books, but if I recall the transition from "in the white" to "blue" interiors occurred somewhere in the 26000 to 27000 serial number range. There is usually not one gun number at which such a change occurs. Rather, it occurs over a range of serial numbers until the habit of factory workers changed or when pre-prepared parts ran out...

Parts of the 1906/24 W+F Bern are available...ones decision to shoot depends on your gun's condition and your willingness to risk parts breakage. The Swiss shoot regularly and did so with their lugers, so the guns are built for shooting. Personally, I will shoot every luger I own...even if a collector piece...just want to know it works...but this is a decision each collector must make for themselves. But I have several shooter lugers that I use 95% of the time.

The fellow I previously mentioned, Stefan Mahrer, and others sell luger parts on the Internet...so they are available and even show up on e-Bay from time to time. I just lost an auction for a spare 1906/24 magazine a few weeks ago. Other accessories for Swiss lugers are available if one is patient...

See a discussion thread a few months ago I titled "A Little Show Off Time"...for some of the goodies I have picked up over the past 2 years for one of my Swiss lugers.

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Dean762 · 06-27-2004, 11:34 PM

Hi Pete

I expect to be shown some guns this week from CH and have already gained some insight abaout them. I will be importing some Sig P210s and hopfully a Luger. I dont like that import mark so I will just have to see whether it will be worth bringing in a Luger also. Thanks again for the cool info Pete.

Dean762 · 06-30-2004, 02:45 AM

One thing I have noticed as I have looked at some pics of the 06/24s is the Bern arsenal marks on the top of the gun. In some cases it looks highlighted and others subdued. Which is correct/original? Also were all 06/24s P marked to indicate year of release from duty?

panda · 06-30-2004, 03:03 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Dean762:
 Also were all 06/24s P marked to indicate year of release from duty?<hr /></blockquote>The answer is no.
I don't know whether there were any rules about stamping the year. Some have it, some don't. I've seen both and I don't think they put the year when they do it nowadays.
Cheers, Panda

Frank H. · 06-30-2004, 05:55 AM

Wow, quick comment from a "new Luger addict":

Everyone here has helped my knowledge as I've lurked and learned on topics from A to Z, but I had to put a quick salute in here for Pete E.

Pete was among those who helped me with my Mauser '70's era questions, and with my 1917 Artillery, I'm also interested in getting an early Swiss so I opened this thread.

Pete E. has provided such great info here! Many great contributors, but it just hit me the amount of time and the amount of help Pete contributes, thread after thread, and I just wanted to acknowledge him publicly in thanking him for all the info and help.

Frank H. in L.A.

Lugerdoc · 06-30-2004, 09:39 AM

According to Fred Datig in his "The Swiss Variations 1897-1947" (I have these book available $20 postpaid) on page 49, Swiss domestic production of Lugers started in Nov.of 1918 at serial number 15216 at Waffenfabrik Bern. The reinforced side plate was introduced at about serial #27501 in 1928. TH

Pete Ebbink · 06-30-2004, 10:51 PM

Hi Dean,

The toggle markings on the 1906/24 W+F Bern are usually not seen "highlighted" unless an owner has done so...They are stamped on the front toggle link before the original bluing similarly to the "DWM" on the German lugers.

Hi Frank H.,

Thanks for the kind words...as you can gather I am a chronic luger student...only picked up the affliction 3 years ago...what I lack in knowledge, I try to make up in enthusiam and a willingness to get other, fellow "beginners" help and information...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Dean762 · 07-01-2004, 11:32 PM

Has anybody here bought any Swiss lugers from FGS.Just curios about peoples experiences and opinions. Ive looked at some of thier 06/24s recently and wondering what kind of a reputation they have in the luger commmunity?

Michael Zeleny · 08-05-2004, 09:19 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Dean762:
I expect to be shown some guns this week from CH and have already gained some insight abaout them. I will be importing some Sig P210s and hopfully a Luger.<hr /></blockquote>I am interested in doing the same. If you are agreeable to joining forces for a volume discount, please contact me.

06-27-2004, 12:13 AM	#1
Dean762 User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 72 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Swiss 06/24 ? Hello folks. I just joined the forums here as I am going to be purchasing a Swiss luger for my collection of Swiss militaria sometime in the near future and need some tips. I want a Luger that is all Swiss production which I understand would be either the 06/24 or the 29. I like wood grips on a luger and the craftsmanship on the 24 looks better(maybe its just my prejudice with the plastic grips). What should I look for or look out for? Any thoughts from you fine folks? Who makes ammo in 30 luger by the way? And is that round as enemic as its made out to be? Im not really looking for a shooter. It has to be a collectable to suit may fancy but it would also have to be able to shoot or again I would loose interest. Thanks in advance for any help.

06-30-2004, 03:03 AM	#9
panda User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 148 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Dean762: <strong> Also were all 06/24s P marked to indicate year of release from duty?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">The answer is no. I don't know whether there were any rules about stamping the year. Some have it, some don't. I've seen both and I don't think they put the year when they do it nowadays. Cheers, Panda

06-30-2004, 09:39 AM	#11
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	According to Fred Datig in his "The Swiss Variations 1897-1947" (I have these book available $20 postpaid) on page 49, Swiss domestic production of Lugers started in Nov.of 1918 at serial number 15216 at Waffenfabrik Bern. The reinforced side plate was introduced at about serial #27501 in 1928. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

08-05-2004, 09:19 PM	#14
Michael Zeleny Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 525 Thanks: 129 Thanked 139 Times in 76 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Dean762: <strong>I expect to be shown some guns this week from CH and have already gained some insight abaout them. I will be importing some Sig P210s and hopfully a Luger.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I am interested in doing the same. If you are agreeable to joining forces for a volume discount, please contact me. __________________ Michael Zeleny@post.harvard.edu -- http://larvatus.livejournal.com/ -- 7576 Willow Glen Road, Los Angeles, CA 90046 -- 323.363.1860 All of old. Nothing else ever. Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. -- Samuel Beckett

06-27-2004, 01:17 PM	#2
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Dean, Welcome aboard...! Here is the V. Bobba book I suggest if you have more interest in learning about Swiss lugers. It usually runs $ 100 to 125 new...but is well worth the money. It is written in both Italian and English text and has the most beautiful photos of Swiss lugers through their evolution. Many photos are of museum-quality pieces...and it gives many details and photos of the relevant details to look for in each Swiss luger model. You are correct in considering a 1906/24 W+F Bern or a 1906/29 W+F Bern if you want a Swiss made pistol. The M1900 and M1906's were DWM-made with some of the M1900 being finished, only, in CH. The 1906/24 W+F Bern would be your best bet since you want wooden grips and a more "traditional" luger look. You might also want to visit the Simspon web site...as they have offerings in Swiss lugers : http://www.simpsonltd.com/LugerRoom/...iss_lugers.htm The folks at FGS also have a Swiss luger section : http://www.fgsinc.8m.com/catalog.html A fellow named Stefan Mahrer in CH also sells Swiss lugers...if you want to go the importation route (i.e. do not forget it will be import stamped by the USA importer on your end...) : http://www.swissdagger.com/ A word of caution : Many Swiss lugers have been arsenal refinished at Bern...and some by Waffenfabrik, USA...if you can seek out a factory original finish pistol or at least a Bern rework...that is the best bet. p.s. I enjoy shooting the 7,65 mm or .30 cal round. It has a "punch" to it when it lets off that is quite enjoyable for target shooting. If you read some of the old posts in the "Shooting, Reloading and Malfunctions" section of the LF, you will see more info. on this round and some folks have found recent sources for cheaper prices...I usually end up spending $ 25-30 for a box of 50... The following gun site specializes in Swiss weapons....lugers and pistol/revolver ammo are discussed in the "Other Swiss Arms" section, frequently : http://pub18.ezboard.com/btheswissri...ommessageboard Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

06-27-2004, 03:05 PM	#3
Dean762 User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 72 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Pete. Some excellent information. Would you have a link or suggestion as to where to start looking for the Bobba book? Who actually manufactures the 30 luger ammo? Am I correct in assuming that the 06/24 would be rust blued?Therefore if I am able to see the inside of the gun I can tell if its been refinished. This is a truly exciting new world. I also really love the Sig P210 but of course this is not the place to discuss that.

06-27-2004, 03:35 PM	#4
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Dean, The folks at Simpson's list the book, new, for $ 125 on their web site. Go to the "Shop On Line" section, the "Book" tab, and on page 2, see item # BK-118 : http://www.simpsonltd.com/ The 1906/24 W+F Bern should be internally "in the white" (up to a certain serial number) after which they were salt blued. I am away from my reference library, at the moment, and cannot give you the cut-over date...but if I recall...it happens around the same time/date when the "island" on the trigger plate went from 3/4 vertical height to full height... Most of the Bern refinished pieces I have seen still have the interiors "in the white", from which I suspose Bern left the "white" intact when refinishing a piece. But some of the more skilled refinishers here in the USA and elsewhere can probably do a rust blue job while not touching the interior...so seeing an "in the white" frame is not always a 100% indication of true factory original finish uless other tell-tale signs (or lack of signs) are on the pistol as well. I have seen some Waffenfabrik USA pieces (offered for sale as "original) that are salt blued and then carefully (but not thoroughly) polished on the inside surfaces... I shoot Winchester .30 cal...with no troubles in my 2 - 30 cal. shooters. Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

06-27-2004, 04:07 PM	#5
Dean762 User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 72 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks again Pete. If you happen onto the ref. material for the cut off ser. #s It would be appreciated. The Bobba book should have that also. Is the 06/24 OK to shoot? Not prone to breakage like the flat spring on the 1900? How available are the accessories and mags for these guns?

06-27-2004, 09:52 PM	#6
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Dean, Yes...the Bobba book would have this info. and lots more. I am away from my books, but if I recall the transition from "in the white" to "blue" interiors occurred somewhere in the 26000 to 27000 serial number range. There is usually not one gun number at which such a change occurs. Rather, it occurs over a range of serial numbers until the habit of factory workers changed or when pre-prepared parts ran out... Parts of the 1906/24 W+F Bern are available...ones decision to shoot depends on your gun's condition and your willingness to risk parts breakage. The Swiss shoot regularly and did so with their lugers, so the guns are built for shooting. Personally, I will shoot every luger I own...even if a collector piece...just want to know it works...but this is a decision each collector must make for themselves. But I have several shooter lugers that I use 95% of the time. The fellow I previously mentioned, Stefan Mahrer, and others sell luger parts on the Internet...so they are available and even show up on e-Bay from time to time. I just lost an auction for a spare 1906/24 magazine a few weeks ago. Other accessories for Swiss lugers are available if one is patient... See a discussion thread a few months ago I titled "A Little Show Off Time"...for some of the goodies I have picked up over the past 2 years for one of my Swiss lugers. Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

06-27-2004, 11:34 PM	#7
Dean762 User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 72 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Pete I expect to be shown some guns this week from CH and have already gained some insight abaout them. I will be importing some Sig P210s and hopfully a Luger. I dont like that import mark so I will just have to see whether it will be worth bringing in a Luger also. Thanks again for the cool info Pete.

06-30-2004, 02:45 AM	#8
Dean762 User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 72 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	One thing I have noticed as I have looked at some pics of the 06/24s is the Bern arsenal marks on the top of the gun. In some cases it looks highlighted and others subdued. Which is correct/original? Also were all 06/24s P marked to indicate year of release from duty?

06-30-2004, 05:55 AM	#10
Frank H. User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Oregon, south of Portland Posts: 84 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Wow, quick comment from a "new Luger addict": Everyone here has helped my knowledge as I've lurked and learned on topics from A to Z, but I had to put a quick salute in here for Pete E. Pete was among those who helped me with my Mauser '70's era questions, and with my 1917 Artillery, I'm also interested in getting an early Swiss so I opened this thread. Pete E. has provided such great info here! Many great contributors, but it just hit me the amount of time and the amount of help Pete contributes, thread after thread, and I just wanted to acknowledge him publicly in thanking him for all the info and help. Frank H. in L.A.

06-30-2004, 10:51 PM	#12
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Dean, The toggle markings on the 1906/24 W+F Bern are usually not seen "highlighted" unless an owner has done so...They are stamped on the front toggle link before the original bluing similarly to the "DWM" on the German lugers. Hi Frank H., Thanks for the kind words...as you can gather I am a chronic luger student...only picked up the affliction 3 years ago...what I lack in knowledge, I try to make up in enthusiam and a willingness to get other, fellow "beginners" help and information... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

07-01-2004, 11:32 PM	#13
Dean762 User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 72 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Has anybody here bought any Swiss lugers from FGS.Just curios about peoples experiences and opinions. Ive looked at some of thier 06/24s recently and wondering what kind of a reputation they have in the luger commmunity?