The Mini-Maglight Test

Dwight Gruber · 11-04-2002, 11:50 PM

I have some questions concerning the use of the Mini-Maglight. The Simichrome thread, being off-topic and having devolved into jocularity, is here in its last serious incarnation re-started.

I have been examining my Lugers, practicing up to see if I can develop an "eye" for this technique. My results are ambiguous.

Is there a difference in the results obtained from rust vs. salt bluing? Is there a difference to be exhibited from bluing of the different grades of steel used in Luger manufacture? Just how all-encompassing should I expect the rust effect to be?

As controls, I have a 1900AE with old, worn reblue; and a nice, fresh Thor black salt blue.

All the rest of my Lugers are relatively bread-and-butter, nothing more than 85%-90% except for a u-block Police, solid 95%+, with all other evidence indicating that they are all original finish. The thing is, the toggles, side plates, and barrels on these guns do not exhibit what the descriptions of this test lead me to expect.

Where there is wear, or chemical-browning on places like the grip straps or the area where the frame rests on the thumb-web, the effect is very clear under the light. Other areas on some of the guns are slightly browner, "warmer", than the control pistols. It is by no means over-all.

The S/42, on the other hand, has almost none of this surface rust, except where the surface is pitted (and -not- blued over); the Police shows almost none at all. Now the surface is not quite the skim-milk-clear effect of the Thor rework, but it is close enough to make me question the observation. For that matter, even the 1900AE has areas where surface rust is not visible.

Out of curiosity I examined my Radom and my Astra 400 (with an obviously re-blued slide), and under the light they both exhibit a soft, brown, overall patina, completely uncharacteristic of any of my Lugers.

So, what am I missing here [img]confused.gif[/img]

--Dwight

policeluger · 11-05-2002, 10:12 AM

I hope I can shed a bit of light on this for you but may just add to the confusion. The one good example of German rust vs salt blue is the 7.65 chamber marked, or I should say cross out 7.65 chamber marked Lugers. Here is a salt blued gun, had the original 7.65 barrel removed and a rust blue 9mm barrel installed. Now there are great numbers of these gun that have after market blue jobs, but an original will show you the contrast. Now as to rust blue, and I have blued 1000's of guns over the years, the chemicals available to us, and I suspect the same is true for rust blueing are not what was used/available 80 years ago in Germany. All thing being equale, polishing method and materials, and polishing is what give you different shades of color, or different texture of metal and apperance, a 1900 Luger will not come out of the blueing tanks the same exact shade as say a pre-64 mod. 70 Winchester. If the ? is will different guns of manufacture and age, steel, ect. blue different, thay will. Clear as mud now right?. I hope I was able too help some. I am not sure of what you mean by "all encompassing" rust blue effect to be....however if you want by private note send along your telephone number and perhaps I can explain better over the phone then I can type.

Thor · 11-05-2002, 12:08 PM

Just to add a little to the discussion.
1. I dont normally hi polish Lugers or even moderate polish a Luger unless the client asked for it, I feel the military weapons were pretty polished to a coarser polish and the ones I do like that "look right".
2. Some modern day salt blues are very very dark black and I dont feel the older blues on original Mausers were that black. They look greyer to me but a black/gray. The one I did for Dwight was the modern day black I call DARTH VADER black.
3. An interesting observation-many times when stripping the bluing off different Lugers I notice that some of them MUST have had a different blue on different parts as some is hard to remove chemically and some disappears almost instantly. I think there are more parts guns in circulation than most people think.

Johnny Peppers · 11-05-2002, 01:49 PM

It is normally easier to apply the light test to the rust blued Lugers as these will be anywhere from 65 to 100 years old. The rust blue was just what the name implies; that the blueing came about as the result of first being rusted with a browning solution and then having the rust scratched or carded off with either a wire wheel of steel wool pads. This was done as many times as was needed to achieve the desired color.
Virtually all Lugers that are 65 to 100 years old will show some wear. Look at the areas that normally get the most wear such as the frame rails, the sideplate, and the bottom of the grip frame around the magazine opening. It is not unusual for Lugers to have thin wear lines on the sides of the barrels which does not show under normal room light, but stand out under intense light. With the Mini-Maglite, or any other light with a high intensity bult, these areas should show signs of browning/oxidation around the worn areas. Even a 98% original finish pistol will show wear under the intense light that is not noticeable under normal room light. If a Luger that was originally rust blued does not show any oxidation, beware of a new rust blued finish. The easiest reblue to spot is the Luger that was originally rust blued that has been reblued in a hot salt blue tank. The natural etching of the steel by the rust blue process gives the rust blue a soft appearance which the hot salt blue lacks.
Some of the Mauser commercial pistols will be found with mixed rust blue and salt blued parts. This is normally easy to spot by the difference in appearance of the two blueing methods. Mauser also used left over parts, mainly barrels, from a run of contract pistols on later pistols, and there may be a difference in the color of the blue under the intense light.
There is no easy way to explain how to spot the telltale signs of a reblue, but just as with anything else you learn about Lugers, looking at a lot of them will help.

Edward Tinker · 11-05-2002, 04:01 PM

Dwight, I have copied the semi-chrome discussion and will add this one to the FAQ.

My plan is to send the FAQ to whomever wants it and receive feedback on its accuracy and the information it holds. I expect that it will have some conflicting opinions and will leave it that way.

It should be able to be linked from the section to each section like most web pages.

11-04-2002, 11:50 PM	#1
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	The Mini-Maglight Test I have some questions concerning the use of the Mini-Maglight. The Simichrome thread, being off-topic and having devolved into jocularity, is here in its last serious incarnation re-started. I have been examining my Lugers, practicing up to see if I can develop an "eye" for this technique. My results are ambiguous. Is there a difference in the results obtained from rust vs. salt bluing? Is there a difference to be exhibited from bluing of the different grades of steel used in Luger manufacture? Just how all-encompassing should I expect the rust effect to be? As controls, I have a 1900AE with old, worn reblue; and a nice, fresh Thor black salt blue. All the rest of my Lugers are relatively bread-and-butter, nothing more than 85%-90% except for a u-block Police, solid 95%+, with all other evidence indicating that they are all original finish. The thing is, the toggles, side plates, and barrels on these guns do not exhibit what the descriptions of this test lead me to expect. Where there is wear, or chemical-browning on places like the grip straps or the area where the frame rests on the thumb-web, the effect is very clear under the light. Other areas on some of the guns are slightly browner, "warmer", than the control pistols. It is by no means over-all. The S/42, on the other hand, has almost none of this surface rust, except where the surface is pitted (and -not- blued over); the Police shows almost none at all. Now the surface is not quite the skim-milk-clear effect of the Thor rework, but it is close enough to make me question the observation. For that matter, even the 1900AE has areas where surface rust is not visible. Out of curiosity I examined my Radom and my Astra 400 (with an obviously re-blued slide), and under the light they both exhibit a soft, brown, overall patina, completely uncharacteristic of any of my Lugers. So, what am I missing here [img]confused.gif[/img] --Dwight

11-05-2002, 12:08 PM	#3
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Just to add a little to the discussion. 1. I dont normally hi polish Lugers or even moderate polish a Luger unless the client asked for it, I feel the military weapons were pretty polished to a coarser polish and the ones I do like that "look right". 2. Some modern day salt blues are very very dark black and I dont feel the older blues on original Mausers were that black. They look greyer to me but a black/gray. The one I did for Dwight was the modern day black I call DARTH VADER black. 3. An interesting observation-many times when stripping the bluing off different Lugers I notice that some of them MUST have had a different blue on different parts as some is hard to remove chemically and some disappears almost instantly. I think there are more parts guns in circulation than most people think. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

11-05-2002, 04:01 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Dwight, I have copied the semi-chrome discussion and will add this one to the FAQ. My plan is to send the FAQ to whomever wants it and receive feedback on its accuracy and the information it holds. I expect that it will have some conflicting opinions and will leave it that way. It should be able to be linked from the section to each section like most web pages. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-05-2002, 10:12 AM	#2
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	I hope I can shed a bit of light on this for you but may just add to the confusion. The one good example of German rust vs salt blue is the 7.65 chamber marked, or I should say cross out 7.65 chamber marked Lugers. Here is a salt blued gun, had the original 7.65 barrel removed and a rust blue 9mm barrel installed. Now there are great numbers of these gun that have after market blue jobs, but an original will show you the contrast. Now as to rust blue, and I have blued 1000's of guns over the years, the chemicals available to us, and I suspect the same is true for rust blueing are not what was used/available 80 years ago in Germany. All thing being equale, polishing method and materials, and polishing is what give you different shades of color, or different texture of metal and apperance, a 1900 Luger will not come out of the blueing tanks the same exact shade as say a pre-64 mod. 70 Winchester. If the ? is will different guns of manufacture and age, steel, ect. blue different, thay will. Clear as mud now right?. I hope I was able too help some. I am not sure of what you mean by "all encompassing" rust blue effect to be....however if you want by private note send along your telephone number and perhaps I can explain better over the phone then I can type.

11-05-2002, 01:49 PM	#4
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	It is normally easier to apply the light test to the rust blued Lugers as these will be anywhere from 65 to 100 years old. The rust blue was just what the name implies; that the blueing came about as the result of first being rusted with a browning solution and then having the rust scratched or carded off with either a wire wheel of steel wool pads. This was done as many times as was needed to achieve the desired color. Virtually all Lugers that are 65 to 100 years old will show some wear. Look at the areas that normally get the most wear such as the frame rails, the sideplate, and the bottom of the grip frame around the magazine opening. It is not unusual for Lugers to have thin wear lines on the sides of the barrels which does not show under normal room light, but stand out under intense light. With the Mini-Maglite, or any other light with a high intensity bult, these areas should show signs of browning/oxidation around the worn areas. Even a 98% original finish pistol will show wear under the intense light that is not noticeable under normal room light. If a Luger that was originally rust blued does not show any oxidation, beware of a new rust blued finish. The easiest reblue to spot is the Luger that was originally rust blued that has been reblued in a hot salt blue tank. The natural etching of the steel by the rust blue process gives the rust blue a soft appearance which the hot salt blue lacks. Some of the Mauser commercial pistols will be found with mixed rust blue and salt blued parts. This is normally easy to spot by the difference in appearance of the two blueing methods. Mauser also used left over parts, mainly barrels, from a run of contract pistols on later pistols, and there may be a difference in the color of the blue under the intense light. There is no easy way to explain how to spot the telltale signs of a reblue, but just as with anything else you learn about Lugers, looking at a lot of them will help.