Magazine markings

Ray · 05-06-2001, 07:47 PM

Gentlemen:

I have a 1941 byf serial# 2485t. The gun has all matching numbers although there is something rather interesting about the magazine. The serial number on the bottom of the clip is also 2485 with a t underneath. However inspection of the clip itself reveals,about.25in. from the bottom, the letters fxo under which is a straight winged eagle with the number 37 under it.The same eagle stamp is at the top side of the clip. The eagle marks on the clip are different than those on the receiver,two straight winged eagles,each one with the number 655 under it and an eagle grasping a Swastika. Does anyone (actually that was a stupid entree), would anyone be willing to let me in on what the clip thing is all about? There are, by the way, two matching clips with this rig, one has the expected + on the bottom.

Thanks a lot!

Ray

Robert Wiggins · 05-06-2001, 08:29 PM

Ray;

I offer the following information:

The "FXO" followed by stylized eagle wings with a "37" below it stamped on both P.08 magazines: I believe they represent C.G. Haenel of Suhl, June 1941 onward. Made of sheet steel. Magazine bottom of cast aluminum. Utilized zigzag magazine spring designed by Hugo Schmeiser & CH. Haenel, adopted 22 Feb 1939. the eagle wings and the "37" appear at the bottom edge and top edge of the forward facing side of the magazine and a "P.08" stamp on the bottom rear facing side of the magazine. If the clip serial number that matches the serial of the P.08 are of the same stamp or punch then the magazines probably are matching. Check carefully that the numbers appear to have the same shape and integrity, fakes have been know to occur.

I will have to look up the "655" as I can't remember it off of the top of my head.

Fellow members comments/corrections welcome!

tony k · 05-06-2001, 11:16 PM

Ray -- In my very limited experience, the fxo mags are correct -- my 41 byf, #960a, has two, although they have the plastic bottoms rather than alloy like yours, and thus are unnumbered. All the fxo mags I have seen have the 37 proof; if there are any other proof numbers, I would think they are rare. (RKIs, please jump in here.) As Robert notes, the fxo magazines were not made "in house" and thus the proof stamp is for the magazine manufactuing facility, rather than the gun maker's. BTW, the 655 proof mark on your receiver is correct for most of the 1941 run -- mine is proofed 735, which they switched to late in the year.

05-07-2001, 05:14 AM

All correct magazines for your byf41 SHOULD be inspected in three (yes, three) places with the E/37 stamp. The magazines were made by a subcontractor (believed to be Schmeisser in Suhl) and inspected separately from the guns. Inspector 37 also inspected 38H pistols and other items made in Suhl, by the way. Inspector 655 handled all Mauser products for the military until late 1941 when inspector 135 took over. Inspector 135's stamp appears on the remainder of lugers through the end of production in November of 1942 (or so it is believed though many lugers appear to have been assembled from leftover parts later in the war). With two matching magazines (actually, there is no such thing as a luger clip, that is an error begun on TV and given a life of its own years ago--it is useful to learn the correct terms as gun collecting is complicated to say the least and it simplifies things) you have a wonderful representation of the luger as it would have been handed to a soldier for combat duty in WW2.

Congratulations,

mcc

Frank · 05-07-2001, 09:06 AM

I'll bet that if you look at your acceptance marks under some magnification they will be 135, not 735. And further I must say, you lucky dog, I would really like a late 41 byf like you have. From the previous discussions I would also believe that Ray has a match, if Robert Wiggins' remarks concerning the font and spacing is met.

tony k · 05-07-2001, 11:39 AM

Yup, it's 135. not 735. Ah, the joys of getting older. More insight, less eyesight :-(

BTW, the takedown tool -- which I doubt is original to this byf -- is proofed 655. I asked Ralph Shattuck about swapping to a 135-proof tool, and he allowed as how some of the early 135-proofed byfs came with 655 tools!

Anyone have a more precise production date for my byf 41, #960a?

Frank · 05-07-2001, 12:55 PM

From the information I have the Luger Production for 1941 was somewhere around 10000 pistols per month, give a little or take a little. The A-Block was the last suffix for the 1941 byf. They started with the N-Block, then went up through the Z-Block, then 10000 No Suffix Lugers and finally the A-Block. Still's claims the last 41 byf that he has any record of is 9950a.

05-06-2001, 07:47 PM	#1
Ray User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 127 Thanks: 2 Thanked 37 Times in 16 Posts	Magazine markings Gentlemen: I have a 1941 byf serial# 2485t. The gun has all matching numbers although there is something rather interesting about the magazine. The serial number on the bottom of the clip is also 2485 with a t underneath. However inspection of the clip itself reveals,about.25in. from the bottom, the letters fxo under which is a straight winged eagle with the number 37 under it.The same eagle stamp is at the top side of the clip. The eagle marks on the clip are different than those on the receiver,two straight winged eagles,each one with the number 655 under it and an eagle grasping a Swastika. Does anyone (actually that was a stupid entree), would anyone be willing to let me in on what the clip thing is all about? There are, by the way, two matching clips with this rig, one has the expected + on the bottom. Thanks a lot! Ray

05-06-2001, 08:29 PM	#2
Robert Wiggins User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 142 Thanks: 16 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Magazine markings Ray; I offer the following information: The "FXO" followed by stylized eagle wings with a "37" below it stamped on both P.08 magazines: I believe they represent C.G. Haenel of Suhl, June 1941 onward. Made of sheet steel. Magazine bottom of cast aluminum. Utilized zigzag magazine spring designed by Hugo Schmeiser & CH. Haenel, adopted 22 Feb 1939. the eagle wings and the "37" appear at the bottom edge and top edge of the forward facing side of the magazine and a "P.08" stamp on the bottom rear facing side of the magazine. If the clip serial number that matches the serial of the P.08 are of the same stamp or punch then the magazines probably are matching. Check carefully that the numbers appear to have the same shape and integrity, fakes have been know to occur. I will have to look up the "655" as I can't remember it off of the top of my head. Fellow members comments/corrections welcome!

05-06-2001, 11:16 PM	#3
tony k User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 53 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Magazine markings Ray -- In my very limited experience, the fxo mags are correct -- my 41 byf, #960a, has two, although they have the plastic bottoms rather than alloy like yours, and thus are unnumbered. All the fxo mags I have seen have the 37 proof; if there are any other proof numbers, I would think they are rare. (RKIs, please jump in here.) As Robert notes, the fxo magazines were not made "in house" and thus the proof stamp is for the magazine manufactuing facility, rather than the gun maker's. BTW, the 655 proof mark on your receiver is correct for most of the 1941 run -- mine is proofed 735, which they switched to late in the year.

05-07-2001, 05:14 AM	#4
mcc Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Magazine markings All correct magazines for your byf41 SHOULD be inspected in three (yes, three) places with the E/37 stamp. The magazines were made by a subcontractor (believed to be Schmeisser in Suhl) and inspected separately from the guns. Inspector 37 also inspected 38H pistols and other items made in Suhl, by the way. Inspector 655 handled all Mauser products for the military until late 1941 when inspector 135 took over. Inspector 135's stamp appears on the remainder of lugers through the end of production in November of 1942 (or so it is believed though many lugers appear to have been assembled from leftover parts later in the war). With two matching magazines (actually, there is no such thing as a luger clip, that is an error begun on TV and given a life of its own years ago--it is useful to learn the correct terms as gun collecting is complicated to say the least and it simplifies things) you have a wonderful representation of the luger as it would have been handed to a soldier for combat duty in WW2. Congratulations, mcc

05-07-2001, 09:06 AM	#5
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 164 Times in 87 Posts	Tony K, please look again! I'll bet that if you look at your acceptance marks under some magnification they will be 135, not 735. And further I must say, you lucky dog, I would really like a late 41 byf like you have. From the previous discussions I would also believe that Ray has a match, if Robert Wiggins' remarks concerning the font and spacing is met.

05-07-2001, 11:39 AM	#6
tony k User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 53 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	You're correct! ctxt Yup, it's 135. not 735. Ah, the joys of getting older. More insight, less eyesight :-( BTW, the takedown tool -- which I doubt is original to this byf -- is proofed 655. I asked Ralph Shattuck about swapping to a 135-proof tool, and he allowed as how some of the early 135-proofed byfs came with 655 tools! Anyone have a more precise production date for my byf 41, #960a?

05-07-2001, 12:55 PM	#7
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 164 Times in 87 Posts	I would think the last month of 1941 From the information I have the Luger Production for 1941 was somewhere around 10000 pistols per month, give a little or take a little. The A-Block was the last suffix for the 1941 byf. They started with the N-Block, then went up through the Z-Block, then 10000 No Suffix Lugers and finally the A-Block. Still's claims the last 41 byf that he has any record of is 9950a.