Rear connector pin

Steve Lempitski · 05-06-2001, 12:03 PM

While examining a 42 Mauser a friend of mine owns, another fellow there insisted the gun is not all matching because the connector pin is not numbered to the gun. On the three Lugers I have personally taken apart, I have never seen a number on this part. Who is right - the fellow there or myself in saying the connector pins are not numbered, possibly because it is a high friction part and the number would not last anyway?

EOC Bob · 05-06-2001, 12:48 PM

Hi Steve, of my two Lugers one pin is numbered the other is not. There is a publication that accounts for the numbered pieces, but I don't recall it at the moment, someone will come along though and set us both straight. Might even be listed on this website. Good luck - Bob

Marvin · 05-06-2001, 01:49 PM

Steve,

The Conncector Pin on the later Mauser Lugers were usually not numbered and it will be correct. In Gortz's book "Die Pistole 08" he makes a remark about this. If a pin is numbered it is a bonus, but it definetly is not considered as a "matching" part on the later Mausers.

marvin

bill m · 05-06-2001, 07:10 PM

Steve, Bob, and Marvin,

The rear connecting pin is ALWAYS numbered on the Mauser military variations, even the late byf 42's. All the military examples originally came from the factory with a numbered rear connecting pin. The Mauser dated commecial variations may not have the rear connecting pin numbered, but my guess would be that they did, but I do not have any of these to personally look at. The Mauser Police models all have the rear connecting pin numbered except possibly some of the 41 and 42 two digit Banners, as these were actually a commercial variation that some could have been used as self purchase.

Robert Wiggins · 05-06-2001, 07:23 PM

From my personal observations, I concurr with Bill M on this. I have seen several Mauser 42's with matching serials and all had the connector pin with matching digits. I'm no expert in this field, so I could be proven wrong.

Regards all;

Steve Lempitski · 05-06-2001, 07:26 PM

05-06-2001, 07:43 PM

I would be interested in other's opinions on what the value impact would be on an otherwise all-matched say 98% blue piece if this connector pin was mis-matched or un-numbered ( when it should have been numbered). Would this mean that that Luger would no longer be collector grade and if so, would it then be valued as a shooter? Also answer the same seniaro if it was a really rare variation like a navy or Kregoff.

bill m · 05-06-2001, 08:37 PM

First, each manufacture marked their variations differently, so it is hard to compare a DWM navy to a Mauser. That said, no matter which manufacture is involed, if a part is not correct then it should drop the value compared to one with the correct parts and in the same conditon. It does not drop the value to that of a shooter. It does not matter how rare the example is, if it is mis-matched or not completely correct, it should effect the value as compared to one that is all correct. I have receive $100 off the asking price for a mis-matched connecting pin on a Mauser collector grade Luger. A lot depends on just how important it is to you to have it all matching.

BILL · 05-06-2001, 10:32 PM

Ultimately, the final value of any pistol is determined by the individual who is actually forking over the cash. There are many Lugers that are not for sale at any price, some that will only go for "high blue book" and some that can be negotiated depending on the seller's desire to sell. An unmarked pin may not be important to some or it may be the first thing a potential buyer wants to look at. There are refinished Lugers that are for sale for thousands of dollars. Luger value is not an exact science and that is one of the things that makes it so intriguing. For the most part, the standard rules of value do apply. Condition, matching numbers and desirability/rarity.

John D. · 05-07-2001, 01:35 PM

Hi bcc - you asked "...Also answer the same seniaro if it was a really rare variation like a navy or Kregoff."

It is typical to find Krieghoffs that do *NOT* have a numbered connector pin. They were sporadically numbered with the 2mm stamps to match the last two digits of the serial number as often as they were left un-numbered. Therefore, it is proper to have a "matched" Krieg either with or without the number on the pin. However, if you are familiar with Kriegs, you can usually discern a "proper" un-numbered HK pin from a pin manufactured by another Luger manufacturer... To see the difference, look closly at the end-cap tooling marks at the cut-off as well as the color of the pin itself.

Hope this helps!

Marvin · 05-07-2001, 02:47 PM

John,

This was good information, maybe this is where I remebered that some of the pins were numbered and some were not. Great info!

Marvin

John D. · 05-07-2001, 03:04 PM

I have to admit - when I purchased my very first Krieg about 14 years ago - the pin was not numbered, and I was devasted by the thought I probably had purchased a non-matched Krieg (for the weightyy sum of $850)... Well - after a lot of research and reading - I traded phone calls with some Krieg collectors in my area (no e-mail back then - nor the value that a Forum such as this provides!), and quickly deduced that HKs were only randomly numbered on the pin..

Since then - I *think* that R. Gibson makes this point in his book in a paragraph buried somewhere - but honestly, I'm not sure? I'll check tonight, and try to find it in that volume (and give a page reference if it's in there). But I know I read it somewhere too - and this may be the source that both of us are familiar with..??

05-06-2001, 12:03 PM	#1
Steve Lempitski User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Old Cape Cod Posts: 238 Thanks: 1 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Rear connector pin While examining a 42 Mauser a friend of mine owns, another fellow there insisted the gun is not all matching because the connector pin is not numbered to the gun. On the three Lugers I have personally taken apart, I have never seen a number on this part. Who is right - the fellow there or myself in saying the connector pins are not numbered, possibly because it is a high friction part and the number would not last anyway?

05-06-2001, 12:48 PM	#2
EOC Bob User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 97 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Rear connector pin Hi Steve, of my two Lugers one pin is numbered the other is not. There is a publication that accounts for the numbered pieces, but I don't recall it at the moment, someone will come along though and set us both straight. Might even be listed on this website. Good luck - Bob

05-06-2001, 01:49 PM	#3
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Rear connector pin Steve, The Conncector Pin on the later Mauser Lugers were usually not numbered and it will be correct. In Gortz's book "Die Pistole 08" he makes a remark about this. If a pin is numbered it is a bonus, but it definetly is not considered as a "matching" part on the later Mausers. marvin

05-06-2001, 07:10 PM	#4
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Rear connector pin Steve, Bob, and Marvin, The rear connecting pin is ALWAYS numbered on the Mauser military variations, even the late byf 42's. All the military examples originally came from the factory with a numbered rear connecting pin. The Mauser dated commecial variations may not have the rear connecting pin numbered, but my guess would be that they did, but I do not have any of these to personally look at. The Mauser Police models all have the rear connecting pin numbered except possibly some of the 41 and 42 two digit Banners, as these were actually a commercial variation that some could have been used as self purchase.

05-06-2001, 07:23 PM	#5
Robert Wiggins User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 142 Thanks: 16 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Rear connector pin From my personal observations, I concurr with Bill M on this. I have seen several Mauser 42's with matching serials and all had the connector pin with matching digits. I'm no expert in this field, so I could be proven wrong. Regards all;

05-06-2001, 07:26 PM	#6
Steve Lempitski User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Old Cape Cod Posts: 238 Thanks: 1 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Thanks (EOM)

05-06-2001, 07:43 PM	#7
bcc Guest Posts: n/a	value impact I would be interested in other's opinions on what the value impact would be on an otherwise all-matched say 98% blue piece if this connector pin was mis-matched or un-numbered ( when it should have been numbered). Would this mean that that Luger would no longer be collector grade and if so, would it then be valued as a shooter? Also answer the same seniaro if it was a really rare variation like a navy or Kregoff.

05-06-2001, 08:37 PM	#8
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: value impact First, each manufacture marked their variations differently, so it is hard to compare a DWM navy to a Mauser. That said, no matter which manufacture is involed, if a part is not correct then it should drop the value compared to one with the correct parts and in the same conditon. It does not drop the value to that of a shooter. It does not matter how rare the example is, if it is mis-matched or not completely correct, it should effect the value as compared to one that is all correct. I have receive $100 off the asking price for a mis-matched connecting pin on a Mauser collector grade Luger. A lot depends on just how important it is to you to have it all matching.

05-06-2001, 10:32 PM	#9
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: value impact Ultimately, the final value of any pistol is determined by the individual who is actually forking over the cash. There are many Lugers that are not for sale at any price, some that will only go for "high blue book" and some that can be negotiated depending on the seller's desire to sell. An unmarked pin may not be important to some or it may be the first thing a potential buyer wants to look at. There are refinished Lugers that are for sale for thousands of dollars. Luger value is not an exact science and that is one of the things that makes it so intriguing. For the most part, the standard rules of value do apply. Condition, matching numbers and desirability/rarity.

05-07-2001, 01:35 PM	#10
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 477 Thanked 515 Times in 128 Posts	No - it's not the same for Krieghoffs... Hi bcc - you asked "...Also answer the same seniaro if it was a really rare variation like a navy or Kregoff." It is typical to find Krieghoffs that do NOT have a numbered connector pin. They were sporadically numbered with the 2mm stamps to match the last two digits of the serial number as often as they were left un-numbered. Therefore, it is proper to have a "matched" Krieg either with or without the number on the pin. However, if you are familiar with Kriegs, you can usually discern a "proper" un-numbered HK pin from a pin manufactured by another Luger manufacturer... To see the difference, look closly at the end-cap tooling marks at the cut-off as well as the color of the pin itself. Hope this helps!

05-07-2001, 02:47 PM	#11
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: No - it's not the same for Krieghoffs... John, This was good information, maybe this is where I remebered that some of the pins were numbered and some were not. Great info! Marvin

05-07-2001, 03:04 PM	#12
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 477 Thanked 515 Times in 128 Posts	No Problem Marvin...! I have to admit - when I purchased my very first Krieg about 14 years ago - the pin was not numbered, and I was devasted by the thought I probably had purchased a non-matched Krieg (for the weightyy sum of $850)... Well - after a lot of research and reading - I traded phone calls with some Krieg collectors in my area (no e-mail back then - nor the value that a Forum such as this provides!), and quickly deduced that HKs were only randomly numbered on the pin.. Since then - I think that R. Gibson makes this point in his book in a paragraph buried somewhere - but honestly, I'm not sure? I'll check tonight, and try to find it in that volume (and give a page reference if it's in there). But I know I read it somewhere too - and this may be the source that both of us are familiar with..??