Off Topic: 45 cal Broomhandles

[Hugh]

<img src="graemlins/offtopic.gif" border="0" alt="[offtopic]" />

Any of you Mauser lovers got $1000 to spare? Then check this out! Be sure to read the interesting Magazine article.

Broomhandle Mausers

[Roadkill]

Very good info, Hugh, Thanks!

RK

[Bud]

Maybe we ought to debate their authenticity?(smile)
I have heard that they are great pistols, but some of them can do with new springs, and some of them had used bores, which brings up another quandry, that is, did production end in the late thirties, or did production continue on into the 50's, and I say, that, yes, they, the Chinese, did re-use existing machinery to not only produce the .45 after the 30's, but long after, as in, into the 50's and beyond, cause hey, they were they were the Chinese, known infamously as employing any and all weapons systems they could salvage, buy, be given, and make, to put in the hands of their millions of regular military and home militias.

[Kyrie]

Hi Folks!

The .45 ACP C96â??s are quite controversial. Here are Erickson & Pateâ??s comments on the .45 ACP C96â??s, from their book, â??The Broomhandle Pistol 1896 - 1936â?�:

â??At Sinhsien near Taiyuan in Shansi province was the Shansi Arsenal. Beginning in 1929 this establishment produced a creditable copy of the Mauser Model 1896, unusual in that it is chambered for the .45 ACP cartridge. This cartridge was becoming more common as the U.S. exports of pistols and submachine guns increased. The magazine of the pistol is lengthened to accommodate the larger round, and this leads to a distinctive cut out in the stock. Production was about 8500 pistols. Very late pistols are not marked in either right or left frame panel. The Shansi Arsenal also produced copies of Spanish machine pistols.â?�

The controversy revolves around whether the .45 ACP C96â??s currently being offered for sale are Shansei C96â??s, or recent production copies made in China for export. There are two schools of thought.

The most vocal school of thought (led primarily by C96 collectors who have authenticated Shansei .45 ACP C96â??s) is that these pistols are recent (late 1990â??s) production copies of the Shansei made for sale to the â??stupid Americansâ?�. In essence, they are official forgeries.

The other school of thought holds these pistols are authentic Shansei .45 ACP C96â??s, imported in the late 1980â??s

Both schools of thought support their respective positions with speculation, some of it quite persuasive. Unfortunately, no one knows for sure what the truth really is in the matter. The Chinese have not been forthcoming with information (and may not have even been asked). What makes this a sometimes hotly debated issue is money. Authenticated Shansei .45 ACP C96â??s, in mint condition, typically sold in the $5,000 range before the â??newâ?� .45 ACP C96â??s were imported. The recent imports, in mint condition, can be had for $1000. If these recent imports are, in fact, genuine Shansei .45 ACP C96â??s then all the $5000 Shansei .45 ACP C96â??s will be strongly devalued. The situation is similar to that of owners of Czech Vz.52 pistols in the early 1990â??s. Before the flood of Vz.52 pistols in the early 1990â??s a Vz.52 was worth $800 - $1200. After the flood, they had little value.

The authenticity of these â??newâ?� .45 ACP C96â??s will likely be a subject of debate that will out live us all :-)

The speculation that the Shansei .45 ACP C96â??s were chambered for a low pressure cartridge similar to but not interchangeable with the US .45 ACP cartridge may be unfounded. It is not mentioned in any of the C96â??s reference works with which I am familiar. Also, the .45 ACP cartridge is not an especially high pressure cartridge, and has a SAAMI MAP quite similar to that of the .32 and .380 ACP cartridges. I have difficulty imagining a cartridge with a peak pressure lower than that of the .45 ACP being able to cycle the action of a .45 ACP C96. However, Jim Oehlenschlager (owner of the now closed Mentor Arms) was of the opinion that the Shansei .45 ACP C96â??s were made for a lower pressure cartridge, and he is likely the most knowledgeable individual concerning the mechanics of C96â??s in the US today - and his opinion needs to be given serious consideration.

In any event, I thought folks might enjoy some background on these Chinese pistols :-)

Warm regards,

Kyrie

[Dok]

As always, I find your posts positively enlightening. It's a pleasure to have you "on board"

Dok [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

[Kyrie]

Hi Dok!

Bless you, sir, for those very kind words!

For those interested, here is a URL with a couple of photos of one of the recently imported Shansei C96's in .45:

http://www.northwest-denture.com/mau...ariations.html

Enjoy :-)

Warm regards,

KyrieChinese variations of the C96

[Edward Tinker]

I have a soft spot for Broomhandles and love the .45, so...

I hear daobut these years ago, but have never seen one. Guess I should check my lottery numbers and see if I can buy one
[img]biggrin.gif[/img]