Photography-Ins and outs

Navy · 09-04-2002, 10:10 PM

All,

I suffer from artistic deficit syndrome. Give me a camera and I'll try to use it to club an animal; but these are personal shortcomings I do not assume apply to other list members.

Suggest we inintiate a sub-sub division of the list that helps morons such as your very obedient servant, a mere ex Georgia soldier, deal with taking pictures of our babies.

I fully admit I am clueless and those to whom I have sent pix will certainly give me an "Amen" on that score.

I suggest that the more technically astute of you, as in the young whippersnappers that Garfield loves to bite on the ass, help us old farts who are technologically Luddites, so that we can both share knowledge and exploit the technology that is available.

Just a suggestion...
Tom A
CS/thumbs down

Doubs · 09-04-2002, 11:37 PM

Tom, it's first necessary to begin with a camera that is capable of doing what you need done. I'll begin by speaking strictly about digital cameras that work with a computer. In general, the cheaper digital cameras won't do what I believe you would expect from it. The higher the resolution the camera will take, the better. In terms of pixel count, I'd want no less than 2MB and up. I'd look for an all-glass elements lens. Plastic is OK but won't give top quality. Macro focusing is a must and the closer the better. The more control you have over the camera's functions, the better. External flash capability (off-camera or hot shoe) is good. The recording media is important. The Sony cameras that use only standard floppy disks sound good but don't take high quality pictures. They make some now that use more than one media (memory sticks, compact disks) that are a huge improvement over the floppy disk only models. (My own camera is a Fuji S602Z that has complete manual controls, complete auto function or a combination such as aperature preferred or shutter speed preferred. It focuses down to 1 cm or .4 inches. The lens is all glass and I can use external flash. With a 128MB Smartmedia card I can take 102 high resolution pictures. IOW, it does all I've outlined and more too.)

A stable platform is necessary. A good tripod works wonders. Setting everything for the best angle isn't always easy when using a tripod but they're necessary.

Lighting is all-important. A light box with frosted glass and a light behind it will help make those shadow-less pictures you see in magazines and books. Then it's necessary to balance the light, generally with at least three lights, outside the box to eliminate the shadows. For close-ups of proof marks and other markings, a cross light will bring out the details. Lighting isn't as simple as one might think and entire books have been written about the techniques of good lighting. (The "ring flash" I mentioned before is a special flash that mounts on the front of a lens and the flash tube makes a complete circle. For macro-photography it gives a very even light that is perfect for showing detail in small objects. They are not cheap!)

Finally, a good photo manipulation program for your computer is a must. I use Corel Photo-Paint 8 but there are many good programs available. Take your pick and learn how to use it. I reduce my pixels-per-inch to 72 and my picture size to 5 or 6 inches in width to fit the screen without having to scroll. I always save the manipulated picture using a different file name and save the original just as it was taken for future use.

Your good advice to buy books about Lugers and read them is also good advice for learning photography. Your local library should have plenty of good books on basic photography and lighting. While most of them may be about film cameras, the basics still apply to digital photography. You may even want to check with the Gov. Printing Office about military training manuals for Photography Technical Schools. You can likely get a whole course for not much money. The technical manuals would be a good reference to have.

The information I've given is very basic but it should be a good starting point.

Pete Ebbink · 09-05-2002, 12:17 AM

Hello Tom,

I agree with what Walker says...

Money needs to be put into a good camera. I use a Casio QV series that ran $ 800.00 or so a couple of years ago, but prices have dropped. Add to that the cost of decent photo editing software ( I use Ulead), and you have the price of another luger...

I opted mine with an IBM micro-drive that hold 320 MB of data. This was important for my work and a bonus for taking hobby photos. This micro drive can hold over 400 photo files at 1200x1600 resolution.

My camera goes from full program mode to full manual. Manual focusing and turning off/on the flash is a must...it also has a "macro" feature.

My camera is also menu driven, via the 1.5" LCD screen which allows selection of size and quality of shots to be taken.

I have also rigged up a wooden lean-to on which I can attach my tripod and have the tripod/camera hang above the gun I am trying to photograph.

It also has a feature called "shutter delay". You push the button to take a photo and the camera gives you up to 25 seconds (field adjustable) to get your hands off the camera before the shot is fired.

Regards,

Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

Luke · 09-05-2002, 07:58 AM

Hi Tom,

I find that a $299 HP flatbed scanner can do wonders with most marked areas and small parts.

The resolution is much higher than that of any digital camera, up to 2400 dots/inch. I usually scan everything at 600 dpi. The pictures can be blown up to full-screen to obtain highly detailed views.

The only places where the scanner has difficulty are those which cannot be placed nearly flat on the scanner top. Even areas such as the serial number on the trigger can be scanned in great detail, although the trigger cannot be placed flat on the glass.

When I receive a new Luger, I completely disassemble it and scan each part and all its markings in great detail.

Email me at lugesm@charter.net if you would like examples.

Eventually, when I find one which is good enough, I will buy a digital camera. But, in the meantime, a scanner does a great job for the detailing of most of the Luger.

On the subject of image software, I have a good shareware version, and I also have a fairly expensive standard commercial image program. The shareware version does 99% of my jobs with an exceptionally uncomplicated user interface. Again, if you are interested, please email me and I will be happy to help.

Luke

John Sabato · 09-05-2002, 10:43 AM

Tom, Please check your profile for a private message from me regarding this issue.

Doubs · 09-05-2002, 03:51 PM

Pete, your set-up is outstanding and should take super pics.

A few features I didn't mention that are important to me include a through-the-lens (TTL) viewer with diopter adjustments that eliminate the need for wearing glasses. Also an extremely fine magnifier for precise focusing and a 10 sec. self-timer.

Luke, I've been amazed at some of the pictures I've seen that were made using only a scanner. Simply outstanding. The major drawback is the lack of flexability. As you've indicated, there are some things the scanner won't do.

The technology of digital cameras has advanced by leaps and bounds and if you haven't compared top quality digital cameras lately, please take a look. The "Pro" digital cameras are amazing and many use the same interchangeable optics as their film camera counterparts. I believe you'll find that the better cameras can match your scanner for resolution. You must have a very special need if the digital cameras available on the market today won't do what's required.

Herb · 09-05-2002, 04:26 PM

Tom, all of the above info is great. I bought a Nikon Digital following the Lugerfest at Ralphs. Dan Clemmons, a forum member showed me the one he had there and I fell in love with it, I can just drop that little thing in my pocket and it goes everywhere with me. It takes 161 pictures on the VGA setting which is what I use for e-mailing and posting here and on the Clubphoto site. It has an eguivalent 1200x1600 resolution camparing it to a scanner. Prices vary wildly, with Amazon having it for a low of $299. Check it out here
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikoncp775/
http://www.digital-camerastore.com/nikoncoolpix775.htm
It does every thing I want it to, and then some, drawback--it is fully automatic, no manual operation.

Artsi · 09-07-2002, 04:56 PM

Pretty much all worth saying is said here.
Just wish to press the importance of learning to make use of the manual settings, rather than flick it to automatic and press the button.

I've noticed with my digital camera that in many cases I must fiddle around with white balance compensation. That alone will make dull shots into just beautiful ones when re-shot with slight override settings.

Like mentioned already - remember lighting. Photography is based around handling lighting.

-Artsi

Thor · 09-07-2002, 05:00 PM

I've noticed Dan's camera has a very good color capture on rust bluing, way better than my older NikonCoolPix 950. That price is PHENOMENAL!

09-04-2002, 10:10 PM	#1
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Photography-Ins and outs All, I suffer from artistic deficit syndrome. Give me a camera and I'll try to use it to club an animal; but these are personal shortcomings I do not assume apply to other list members. Suggest we inintiate a sub-sub division of the list that helps morons such as your very obedient servant, a mere ex Georgia soldier, deal with taking pictures of our babies. I fully admit I am clueless and those to whom I have sent pix will certainly give me an "Amen" on that score. I suggest that the more technically astute of you, as in the young whippersnappers that Garfield loves to bite on the ass, help us old farts who are technologically Luddites, so that we can both share knowledge and exploit the technology that is available. Just a suggestion... Tom A CS/thumbs down

09-05-2002, 07:58 AM	#4
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 7 Posts	Hi Tom, I find that a $299 HP flatbed scanner can do wonders with most marked areas and small parts. The resolution is much higher than that of any digital camera, up to 2400 dots/inch. I usually scan everything at 600 dpi. The pictures can be blown up to full-screen to obtain highly detailed views. The only places where the scanner has difficulty are those which cannot be placed nearly flat on the scanner top. Even areas such as the serial number on the trigger can be scanned in great detail, although the trigger cannot be placed flat on the glass. When I receive a new Luger, I completely disassemble it and scan each part and all its markings in great detail. Email me at lugesm@charter.net if you would like examples. Eventually, when I find one which is good enough, I will buy a digital camera. But, in the meantime, a scanner does a great job for the detailing of most of the Luger. On the subject of image software, I have a good shareware version, and I also have a fairly expensive standard commercial image program. The shareware version does 99% of my jobs with an exceptionally uncomplicated user interface. Again, if you are interested, please email me and I will be happy to help. Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

09-05-2002, 10:43 AM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Tom, Please check your profile for a private message from me regarding this issue. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-05-2002, 04:26 PM	#7
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Tom, all of the above info is great. I bought a Nikon Digital following the Lugerfest at Ralphs. Dan Clemmons, a forum member showed me the one he had there and I fell in love with it, I can just drop that little thing in my pocket and it goes everywhere with me. It takes 161 pictures on the VGA setting which is what I use for e-mailing and posting here and on the Clubphoto site. It has an eguivalent 1200x1600 resolution camparing it to a scanner. Prices vary wildly, with Amazon having it for a low of $299. Check it out here http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikoncp775/ http://www.digital-camerastore.com/nikoncoolpix775.htm It does every thing I want it to, and then some, drawback--it is fully automatic, no manual operation. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

09-07-2002, 04:56 PM	#8
Artsi User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 61 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Pretty much all worth saying is said here. Just wish to press the importance of learning to make use of the manual settings, rather than flick it to automatic and press the button. I've noticed with my digital camera that in many cases I must fiddle around with white balance compensation. That alone will make dull shots into just beautiful ones when re-shot with slight override settings. Like mentioned already - remember lighting. Photography is based around handling lighting. -Artsi __________________ A golf course is a waste of perfectly good rifle range. (- someone in the net-)

09-04-2002, 11:37 PM	#2
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,736 Thanks: 819 Thanked 1,769 Times in 586 Posts	Tom, it's first necessary to begin with a camera that is capable of doing what you need done. I'll begin by speaking strictly about digital cameras that work with a computer. In general, the cheaper digital cameras won't do what I believe you would expect from it. The higher the resolution the camera will take, the better. In terms of pixel count, I'd want no less than 2MB and up. I'd look for an all-glass elements lens. Plastic is OK but won't give top quality. Macro focusing is a must and the closer the better. The more control you have over the camera's functions, the better. External flash capability (off-camera or hot shoe) is good. The recording media is important. The Sony cameras that use only standard floppy disks sound good but don't take high quality pictures. They make some now that use more than one media (memory sticks, compact disks) that are a huge improvement over the floppy disk only models. (My own camera is a Fuji S602Z that has complete manual controls, complete auto function or a combination such as aperature preferred or shutter speed preferred. It focuses down to 1 cm or .4 inches. The lens is all glass and I can use external flash. With a 128MB Smartmedia card I can take 102 high resolution pictures. IOW, it does all I've outlined and more too.) A stable platform is necessary. A good tripod works wonders. Setting everything for the best angle isn't always easy when using a tripod but they're necessary. Lighting is all-important. A light box with frosted glass and a light behind it will help make those shadow-less pictures you see in magazines and books. Then it's necessary to balance the light, generally with at least three lights, outside the box to eliminate the shadows. For close-ups of proof marks and other markings, a cross light will bring out the details. Lighting isn't as simple as one might think and entire books have been written about the techniques of good lighting. (The "ring flash" I mentioned before is a special flash that mounts on the front of a lens and the flash tube makes a complete circle. For macro-photography it gives a very even light that is perfect for showing detail in small objects. They are not cheap!) Finally, a good photo manipulation program for your computer is a must. I use Corel Photo-Paint 8 but there are many good programs available. Take your pick and learn how to use it. I reduce my pixels-per-inch to 72 and my picture size to 5 or 6 inches in width to fit the screen without having to scroll. I always save the manipulated picture using a different file name and save the original just as it was taken for future use. Your good advice to buy books about Lugers and read them is also good advice for learning photography. Your local library should have plenty of good books on basic photography and lighting. While most of them may be about film cameras, the basics still apply to digital photography. You may even want to check with the Gov. Printing Office about military training manuals for Photography Technical Schools. You can likely get a whole course for not much money. The technical manuals would be a good reference to have. The information I've given is very basic but it should be a good starting point.

09-05-2002, 12:17 AM	#3
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Tom, I agree with what Walker says... Money needs to be put into a good camera. I use a Casio QV series that ran $ 800.00 or so a couple of years ago, but prices have dropped. Add to that the cost of decent photo editing software ( I use Ulead), and you have the price of another luger... I opted mine with an IBM micro-drive that hold 320 MB of data. This was important for my work and a bonus for taking hobby photos. This micro drive can hold over 400 photo files at 1200x1600 resolution. My camera goes from full program mode to full manual. Manual focusing and turning off/on the flash is a must...it also has a "macro" feature. My camera is also menu driven, via the 1.5" LCD screen which allows selection of size and quality of shots to be taken. I have also rigged up a wooden lean-to on which I can attach my tripod and have the tripod/camera hang above the gun I am trying to photograph. It also has a feature called "shutter delay". You push the button to take a photo and the camera gives you up to 25 seconds (field adjustable) to get your hands off the camera before the shot is fired. Regards, Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

09-05-2002, 03:51 PM	#6
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,736 Thanks: 819 Thanked 1,769 Times in 586 Posts	Pete, your set-up is outstanding and should take super pics. A few features I didn't mention that are important to me include a through-the-lens (TTL) viewer with diopter adjustments that eliminate the need for wearing glasses. Also an extremely fine magnifier for precise focusing and a 10 sec. self-timer. Luke, I've been amazed at some of the pictures I've seen that were made using only a scanner. Simply outstanding. The major drawback is the lack of flexability. As you've indicated, there are some things the scanner won't do. The technology of digital cameras has advanced by leaps and bounds and if you haven't compared top quality digital cameras lately, please take a look. The "Pro" digital cameras are amazing and many use the same interchangeable optics as their film camera counterparts. I believe you'll find that the better cameras can match your scanner for resolution. You must have a very special need if the digital cameras available on the market today won't do what's required.

09-07-2002, 05:00 PM	#9
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	I've noticed Dan's camera has a very good color capture on rust bluing, way better than my older NikonCoolPix 950. That price is PHENOMENAL! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."