?Genuine? Luger Bakelite Grips

John Sabato · 07-24-2002, 01:01 PM

Which one is real? Which one is reproduction?

Can you guess?? Do you know??...

As some of you may be aware, Luke Smithwick and I are working on a project to help users identify genuine bakelite grips from reproduction grips. This P-08 model is sometimes referred to as a "Black Widow" Luger. Other Luger models that came equipped with bakelite grips include the Krieghoff models, but most of these grips are brown in color.

Luke and I need a larger sample of grips to make the case study worthwhile. The results of our case study will become a permanent article posted here on the Lugerforum.com website under General Information linkÃ¢?Â¦

Please note that this study will NOT include the bakelite or plastic grips that were manufactured and issued to the Volkspolizei by the East Germans. These grips are identified by a bullseye symbol molded into the upper portion of both grips.

Those of you who own either a byf 41 type Luger with black bakelite grips, or a Krieghoff model Luger with bakelite grips that would like to contribute to this study must have access to a scanner, or otherwise be VERY good with a hi-end digital camera.

If you are willing to provide scans of both sides of your grips for this study please send me a private message here on the forum with your email address and when I get back from my vacation during the week of August 5th I will contact you about what is required and where to email or upload the photo/scans of your grips...

Thanks in advance for your help on this project from both Luke and myself,
<img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" />

Luke · 07-24-2002, 01:12 PM

Thanks for the post, John.

An important point here is that we receive pictures/scans ONLY of KNOWN AUTHENTIC Black Widow grips.

As a second part of the study, it might be useful to look at known, fake, Bakelite, black grips. For now let's stick with known authentic samples, as we are looking for common elements in the real grips.

If you are willing/able to help, please contact me at: lugesm@charter.net

Thanks,
Luke

max2cam · 07-24-2002, 03:04 PM

This may (or may not) be the right place to ask this question, but here goes.

What make or vintage of brown (bakelite?) grip has the diamonds aligned horizontally (left to right) instead of vertically (up and down)?

All the photos of grips that I've seen show the long-axis of the diamonds aligned vertically, but I have a grip with the diamonds aligned sideways or horizontally.

It appears to be a well-made, solid grip.

Is this a common variation? What is its origin?

John Sabato · 07-24-2002, 03:12 PM

Can you post a scan or photo of these brown grips please?

max2cam · 07-24-2002, 04:16 PM

John,

If you're referring to me and my brown horizontal diamond grip (I just have the left one), I don't have a digital camera, but do have a scanner. I plan to take some photos of my Luger anyway, so I can take that route, but it will take some time....

Have you seen the type of horizontal diamond grip that I'm describing?

John Sabato · 07-24-2002, 04:29 PM

Yes max2cam... I was replying to you. A camera isn't necessary Scanning the grip will give reasonable good results and would be fine. 150 dpi would be fine... just crop the scan so that only the grip is shown to limit file size to be under the upload limit of 180k, and use the upload feature on the left frame of the homepage to send it.

Please place the grip with the checkering side toward the glass and lay a white cloth over it before you scan it.

I believe I have seen this type before being auctioned... The checkering, while ver serviceable, is much more crude than the grips I started this thread with... I believe these grips are soviet or far east in origin... but if you post the scan, the forum members will be able to tell you for sure.

thanks

max2cam · 07-24-2002, 08:59 PM

I'll scan the brown horiz. grip when I can. I don't have scanner and computer hooked up at the moment. I"m curious to hear where this grip originates from.

Thanks.

ESU · 08-09-2002, 07:58 PM

How do we tell real from fake. I'm new to luger collecting and my 1st Luger is a byf 42 w/ black plastic grips . How do I tell if they are real or do they even belong on this particular gun ? Thx.

John Sabato · 08-12-2002, 12:06 PM

ESU,

bfy 42 Lugers had both wooden and bakelite grips so if yours are original bakelite, that would be correct.

If you have a digital camera or scanner, post a photo of the grips here in this message thread and we can give you an opinion of their authenticity...

07-24-2002, 01:01 PM	#1
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	?Genuine? Luger Bakelite Grips Which one is real? Which one is reproduction? Can you guess?? Do you know??... As some of you may be aware, Luke Smithwick and I are working on a project to help users identify genuine bakelite grips from reproduction grips. This P-08 model is sometimes referred to as a "Black Widow" Luger. Other Luger models that came equipped with bakelite grips include the Krieghoff models, but most of these grips are brown in color. Luke and I need a larger sample of grips to make the case study worthwhile. The results of our case study will become a permanent article posted here on the Lugerforum.com website under General Information linkÃ¢?Â¦ Please note that this study will NOT include the bakelite or plastic grips that were manufactured and issued to the Volkspolizei by the East Germans. These grips are identified by a bullseye symbol molded into the upper portion of both grips. Those of you who own either a byf 41 type Luger with black bakelite grips, or a Krieghoff model Luger with bakelite grips that would like to contribute to this study must have access to a scanner, or otherwise be VERY good with a hi-end digital camera. If you are willing to provide scans of both sides of your grips for this study please send me a private message here on the forum with your email address and when I get back from my vacation during the week of August 5th I will contact you about what is required and where to email or upload the photo/scans of your grips... Thanks in advance for your help on this project from both Luke and myself, <img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" /> __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-24-2002, 01:12 PM	#2
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Thanks for the post, John. An important point here is that we receive pictures/scans ONLY of KNOWN AUTHENTIC Black Widow grips. As a second part of the study, it might be useful to look at known, fake, Bakelite, black grips. For now let's stick with known authentic samples, as we are looking for common elements in the real grips. If you are willing/able to help, please contact me at: lugesm@charter.net Thanks, Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

07-24-2002, 03:12 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Can you post a scan or photo of these brown grips please? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-24-2002, 04:29 PM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Yes max2cam... I was replying to you. A camera isn't necessary Scanning the grip will give reasonable good results and would be fine. 150 dpi would be fine... just crop the scan so that only the grip is shown to limit file size to be under the upload limit of 180k, and use the upload feature on the left frame of the homepage to send it. Please place the grip with the checkering side toward the glass and lay a white cloth over it before you scan it. I believe I have seen this type before being auctioned... The checkering, while ver serviceable, is much more crude than the grips I started this thread with... I believe these grips are soviet or far east in origin... but if you post the scan, the forum members will be able to tell you for sure. thanks __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-12-2002, 12:06 PM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	ESU, bfy 42 Lugers had both wooden and bakelite grips so if yours are original bakelite, that would be correct. If you have a digital camera or scanner, post a photo of the grips here in this message thread and we can give you an opinion of their authenticity... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-24-2002, 03:04 PM	#3
max2cam User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: USA Posts: 97 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	This may (or may not) be the right place to ask this question, but here goes. What make or vintage of brown (bakelite?) grip has the diamonds aligned horizontally (left to right) instead of vertically (up and down)? All the photos of grips that I've seen show the long-axis of the diamonds aligned vertically, but I have a grip with the diamonds aligned sideways or horizontally. It appears to be a well-made, solid grip. Is this a common variation? What is its origin?

07-24-2002, 04:16 PM	#5
max2cam User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: USA Posts: 97 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	John, If you're referring to me and my brown horizontal diamond grip (I just have the left one), I don't have a digital camera, but do have a scanner. I plan to take some photos of my Luger anyway, so I can take that route, but it will take some time.... Have you seen the type of horizontal diamond grip that I'm describing?

07-24-2002, 08:59 PM	#7
max2cam User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: USA Posts: 97 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I'll scan the brown horiz. grip when I can. I don't have scanner and computer hooked up at the moment. I"m curious to hear where this grip originates from. Thanks.

08-09-2002, 07:58 PM	#8
ESU User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: NY Posts: 57 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	How do we tell real from fake. I'm new to luger collecting and my 1st Luger is a byf 42 w/ black plastic grips . How do I tell if they are real or do they even belong on this particular gun ? Thx.