Luger in 1912 Maynard Dixon Painting?

mm · 11-15-2003, 01:18 AM

I was watching the Antiques Road Show tonight where a Maynard Dixon painting of a cowboy overlooking a desert valley with what looks like a holstered Luger. The holster is open (without a flap) exposing the toggle.

Dixon is a famous western artist who was born in Fresno, California in 1875.

MM

PANZERSOLDAT · 11-15-2003, 09:21 AM

I have read that lugers enjoyed a certain amount of popularity in the West at the turn of the century and through the 1920's. I once read that Tom Horn escaped from a Wyoming jail and seized a Deputy's Luger from a desktop. Tom made it to a nearby stable where another Deputy got the drop on Tom because he could not figure out how to work the Luger. Tom, soon after, wore a hemp necktie. I would be interested to know the veracity of this story. If any members from Cheyenne have seen this documented in a local museum please email the details to me.Duane

Dwight Gruber · 11-15-2003, 12:26 PM

MM and Duane, you have brought up a subject which I have been curious about for a while. That is, just what useage was there of Lugers in what, for the lack of a better term, might be called the working West (I hesitate to just invoke cowboys...)? Does anyone have any documentation, any stories??

--Dwight

PANZERSOLDAT · 11-15-2003, 06:27 PM

Dwight, I have seen a few photos of working ranch hands with Lugers.I even recall one with a cowboy holding an Ideal holster/stock luger with stock attached. I will search my library for copies to post photos. Maybe other members will post any photos of lugers in use in the West. Recently had a 1900 commercial with Ideal grips coming from Canada with owners name engraved on sideplate that passed through our Gunsmith's shop. Needed new mainspring. It was well taken care of even though finish and grips were well worn. I bet a lot of Lugers went west from 1900-1930. Duane

Lugerdoc · 11-16-2003, 10:20 AM

I wish that I could recall the movie in which a circa 1910 Sheriff used a luger and a motor cycle in his daily duties. TH

Doubs · 11-16-2003, 01:00 PM

Skeeter Skelton did an article in which he said one old Cowboy favored a .30 Luger because it was the only handgun he'd ever seen that would shoot through a wagon tongue! Why that was important, Skeeter didn't understand but the old Cowboy apparently had his reasons.

My father read a lot of gun and hunting magazines back in the 1920's and 1930's. One story he told me about concerned two Americans in Mexico who were searching for gold in the early part of the 1900's. They were jumped by two Mexican "Bandidos". One American shot his assailant once with a .45 and that fight was over. The other American shot his man 8 times with a .30 Luger and was killed with a machette before the man died of his wounds. There's no way of knowing, of course, but I suspect that the Luger was loaded with hardball as the softnose .30 was a nasty load and would likely have done the job..... especially 8 of them.

The Luger was, by all accounts I've read, quite popular in the West and Southwest before and after WW1.

George Anderson · 11-16-2003, 03:50 PM

Some several years ago I came across an AE 1900 in a Northern Virginia gunshop. The grip strap was nicely engraved with a dedication to a captain in some unit of the Colorado cavalry from his men. I do not recall if it was a National Guard unit but I think it was U.S. Cavalry. The piece seemed very genuine and was cheap.

I called a very well known dealer to ask about the veracity of the piece. He responded that it was possible but that the value was insignificant. When I went back to the shop a couple of weeks later the owner said the gun had been sold over the phone and "out of the blue." He would not say who the buyer was.

I believe that Lugers were used rather extensivly by lawmen and just ordinary folks right after the turn of the century. Folks who ordinarily packed iron such as ranch hands, rural mailmen, deputies and such would have been at the top of the list.

PANZERSOLDAT · 11-16-2003, 08:39 PM

Interesting Mr. Anderson! I have failed to locate any photos, but have found some sales figures in John Walter's, THE LUGER STORY. Page 129. DWM dealt solely with Hans Tauscher,a wholesaler in New York City. From 1913-1917 his books showed a total of 2344 Lugers in various models sold. I am still looking for earlier figures from 1900-1913.Duane

John Sabato · 11-16-2003, 11:48 PM

George, It sounds to me from your story that your "well known dealer" may have tracked down the gun and bought it for himself! Next time don't be so specific about where you found it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

Lugerdoc · 11-17-2003, 10:03 AM

George, The 1000 US test 1900AE were mostly issued to Calvary units for testing. If the pistol was in the 6100 to 7100 range, it will be interesting to see if it appears on the list of your "well know dealer" and at what price. TH

George Anderson · 11-18-2003, 09:00 AM

Tom, as I recall the pistol was "GERMANY" marked and not in the Test Range.geo

11-15-2003, 01:18 AM	#1
mm User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SFBAY Posts: 82 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Luger in 1912 Maynard Dixon Painting? I was watching the Antiques Road Show tonight where a Maynard Dixon painting of a cowboy overlooking a desert valley with what looks like a holstered Luger. The holster is open (without a flap) exposing the toggle. Dixon is a famous western artist who was born in Fresno, California in 1875. MM __________________ mjm

11-16-2003, 10:20 AM	#5
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	I wish that I could recall the movie in which a circa 1910 Sheriff used a luger and a motor cycle in his daily duties. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

11-16-2003, 11:48 PM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	George, It sounds to me from your story that your "well known dealer" may have tracked down the gun and bought it for himself! Next time don't be so specific about where you found it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" /> __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-17-2003, 10:03 AM	#10
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	George, The 1000 US test 1900AE were mostly issued to Calvary units for testing. If the pistol was in the 6100 to 7100 range, it will be interesting to see if it appears on the list of your "well know dealer" and at what price. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

11-15-2003, 09:21 AM	#2
PANZERSOLDAT User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: CLARKSVILLE, TN Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have read that lugers enjoyed a certain amount of popularity in the West at the turn of the century and through the 1920's. I once read that Tom Horn escaped from a Wyoming jail and seized a Deputy's Luger from a desktop. Tom made it to a nearby stable where another Deputy got the drop on Tom because he could not figure out how to work the Luger. Tom, soon after, wore a hemp necktie. I would be interested to know the veracity of this story. If any members from Cheyenne have seen this documented in a local museum please email the details to me.Duane

11-15-2003, 12:26 PM	#3
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	MM and Duane, you have brought up a subject which I have been curious about for a while. That is, just what useage was there of Lugers in what, for the lack of a better term, might be called the working West (I hesitate to just invoke cowboys...)? Does anyone have any documentation, any stories?? --Dwight

11-15-2003, 06:27 PM	#4
PANZERSOLDAT User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: CLARKSVILLE, TN Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Dwight, I have seen a few photos of working ranch hands with Lugers.I even recall one with a cowboy holding an Ideal holster/stock luger with stock attached. I will search my library for copies to post photos. Maybe other members will post any photos of lugers in use in the West. Recently had a 1900 commercial with Ideal grips coming from Canada with owners name engraved on sideplate that passed through our Gunsmith's shop. Needed new mainspring. It was well taken care of even though finish and grips were well worn. I bet a lot of Lugers went west from 1900-1930. Duane

11-16-2003, 01:00 PM	#6
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,671 Thanks: 772 Thanked 1,617 Times in 526 Posts	Skeeter Skelton did an article in which he said one old Cowboy favored a .30 Luger because it was the only handgun he'd ever seen that would shoot through a wagon tongue! Why that was important, Skeeter didn't understand but the old Cowboy apparently had his reasons. My father read a lot of gun and hunting magazines back in the 1920's and 1930's. One story he told me about concerned two Americans in Mexico who were searching for gold in the early part of the 1900's. They were jumped by two Mexican "Bandidos". One American shot his assailant once with a .45 and that fight was over. The other American shot his man 8 times with a .30 Luger and was killed with a machette before the man died of his wounds. There's no way of knowing, of course, but I suspect that the Luger was loaded with hardball as the softnose .30 was a nasty load and would likely have done the job..... especially 8 of them. The Luger was, by all accounts I've read, quite popular in the West and Southwest before and after WW1.

11-16-2003, 03:50 PM	#7
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Some several years ago I came across an AE 1900 in a Northern Virginia gunshop. The grip strap was nicely engraved with a dedication to a captain in some unit of the Colorado cavalry from his men. I do not recall if it was a National Guard unit but I think it was U.S. Cavalry. The piece seemed very genuine and was cheap. I called a very well known dealer to ask about the veracity of the piece. He responded that it was possible but that the value was insignificant. When I went back to the shop a couple of weeks later the owner said the gun had been sold over the phone and "out of the blue." He would not say who the buyer was. I believe that Lugers were used rather extensivly by lawmen and just ordinary folks right after the turn of the century. Folks who ordinarily packed iron such as ranch hands, rural mailmen, deputies and such would have been at the top of the list.

11-16-2003, 08:39 PM	#8
PANZERSOLDAT User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: CLARKSVILLE, TN Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Interesting Mr. Anderson! I have failed to locate any photos, but have found some sales figures in John Walter's, THE LUGER STORY. Page 129. DWM dealt solely with Hans Tauscher,a wholesaler in New York City. From 1913-1917 his books showed a total of 2344 Lugers in various models sold. I am still looking for earlier figures from 1900-1913.Duane

11-18-2003, 09:00 AM	#11
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Tom, as I recall the pistol was "GERMANY" marked and not in the Test Range.geo