K Date Info request

Leon · 02-09-2003, 04:23 PM

Hello- just found this site and am glad to find others w/like interests.
I just aquired my first Luger (I've been patiently waiting for the right one...). It's a K date w/matching magazine.
The front of the frame is marked w/a small scriptic 'a' below the serial #836. The magazine is blued metal w/an aluminum bottom and a waffenamt 37 stamp (in two places)- I'd be obliged if anyone could tell me anything about the production time frame (early or late '34?), etc. or places to find out about the history of the particular piece.

Thanks in advance <img border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" title="" src="graemlins/drink.gif" /> , and Semper Fi.

Silvereagle29 · 02-09-2003, 06:45 PM

Leon
You can purchase any luger book and find additional information on your new pistol.
Serial number 836a is near the end of the 1934 - K - date production. December of
1934 or January of 1935 might be a really good guess. This serial number range
is the transition area to the G-S/42. The Luger will have B-90 S-91 acceptance marks on the right receiver and a type 1 test proof. There will be no Navy marks because the
Luger is way out of the normal Reichsmarine serial number range. The magazine you describle is probably also marked with a "fxo" and P 08 mark and would have a concave pinned aluminum base and extruded type blue body construction. If the P 08 mark is upside down
it's the early "fxo" magazine used in mid-1941. Later "fxo" magazines had a rightside up P 08 mark. If the magazine is the same design but has a 122 code than it would be common to a 1940-42, 41-42 and early 41-byf. If you find the correct magazine, it will have a rolled/crimped nickel body with a solid aluminum base. On the base will be the serial number, the suffix letter - a - also a "+" if, it's the second magazine. The aluminum base will have a B-90 nspector/acceptance mark. Good Luck.

Edward Tinker · 02-09-2003, 08:02 PM

Hello Leon!

Good to have you here, if you stay, you'll want more than one!

And Semper Fi, that sounds like some former Marine??

(retired army, so a big welcome and <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> )

Leon · 02-12-2003, 01:49 PM

Thanks for the scoop- the marks are as described above, I will take the time (when I find some) to fill out the form and see what you folks think it's worth- I got it from what I consider a reputable dealer. If only I had more time...

The Mag has two 37 waffenamts, both on the left side as you would view it (assuming the bullet's nose were the front). On the right (same side as the waffenamts) bottom is the P-08 stamp- the P is covered by a pin that holds the magazine bottom in place. The bottom is a single piece of aluminum w/the only the serial # stamped on it.

Semper Fi and thanks- I'm an active duty Marine.

Leon

Edward Tinker · 02-12-2003, 06:44 PM

Leon, any way I can help someone serving our country, just ask.

Been out three years, have a son serving now, so I understand the time issue. Need something, like posting pictures or poggie bait, just ask.

Edward Tinker
SSG (RET)
US Army Military Police

A.Mifsin · 02-25-2003, 12:34 PM

Hi,
As far as I know (subject to corretion) the K Dated Lugers were isued with a nickel plated mag, and the blued fxo type was of the last type of the 4 different mags issued with Mauser Lugers. Then how came that this mag is matching numbers to a K dated Luger?
Alfred

John Sabato · 02-25-2003, 12:51 PM

A.Mifsin

Leon didn't specifically say that it was an FXO magazine... just that it has a blue tube and an aluminum bottom...

Your question about matching serial numbers on the magazine seem to be right on target for the information that we have... Perhaps Leon can find the time to post closeup photographs of his first Luger and it's magazine... that would be very helpful for identificaton.

welcome aboard Leon... from another retired Army guy.

Frank · 02-25-2003, 03:41 PM

John, if it's a blue tube with an aluminum bottom and two E/37 acceptance marks it's an fxo!!

John Sabato · 02-25-2003, 04:04 PM

Okay then... that gives Leon's question a new emphasis... How would a pistol of this vintage end up with two FXO mags that have matching serial numbers?

Could it have been re-issued with factory magazines after the FXO mags became standard?

Pelorat · 02-25-2003, 04:14 PM

I have it on very good authority that there is no such thing as a 'former' Marine...

Active, Reserve, Retired, Deceased, but never 'former'!

(can you tell I got yelled at once for asking if a buddy's friend was a 'former Marine'?)

Edward Tinker · 02-25-2003, 05:15 PM

yes, that is why I said "former", to pull a Marines chain, but only slightly,

You are right, once a Marine, always a Marine, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> And if I wasn't in mixed company, I'd tell a joke or two, but what it actually comes down to, is if you served, more power to you,

Frank · 02-25-2003, 06:25 PM

John, if he has a K-Date, the magazines should be plated, not blue. If indeed the fxo magazine is numbered to the pistol, I see two possibilities. Someone found a match with an fxo, less the suffix letter (doubtful an fxo mag with an "a suffix" exists) or Waffenamt USA has been involved. Some fxo magazines contain no serial number on the base. If one has the number die, one can imprint any number you want. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

Lugerdoc · 02-26-2003, 07:42 AM

TWIMC, Most E.German reworks originally came into the US with 2 matching EG numbered mags. These mags were made on the original WW2 matchinery but are usually unmarked or marked 2/1001 for the Ernst Thaumann Werks. Tom H.

A.Mifsin · 02-26-2003, 12:58 PM

Maybe, Leon could tell us what kind of spring the mag has. because if it is the zig-zag type then it is either typy 3 or typ4(FXO)mag.
Type 3 were issued late 1939,1940 and type 4 were issued with 41 and 42 byf code lugers.
Alfred

Leon · 02-28-2003, 09:14 PM

Alright, I've been a bit preoccupied w/things- but have a few minutes.

The magazine is dark colored and shows silver metal where it is worn from insert/extract from the weapon.

It is marked in 3 places:
2 waffenamts #37- one high and one low on the forward left of the magazine, (assuming the bullet end of the round is forward). The lower amt has fxo above it.
Bottom, aft, left side has P08 w/the P on the bottom (if the magazine were loaded, and you laid it on its back w/the bullet end of the round facing up, you would read P08 from left to right). The P is gone as a pin to hold magazine bottom has been installed 'through' it. The pin hasn't been touched (visibly) and shows the same wear pattern as the rest of the magazine.

The bottom of the magazine is aluminum, all one piece, and marked w/the serial # in the center and S/42 on the top (bullet end).

No such thing as an 'x' Marine (Marine is ALWAYS capitalized in print, you know).

Tried to upload some picture, to no avail- but I found a helpful soul (Ed Tinker) who I can fwd the pics to who said he'd post them for me.

I'll dig around and see if I can find a photo of a 'plated' mag vs. the blued tube versions- the hell is in the details. And I've learned more about this thing on this web sight in few short weeks than I thought possible- NICE JOB.

Leon · 02-28-2003, 09:25 PM

OK, just sorted through some pictures and submit the following additional info: The mag is definitely a blued tube fxo. The bottom is unlike any photos- it is attached to the magazine by a pin at the rear (hence the P being obliterated by the pin placement) vice a pin thru the center of the bottom.

There are no other markings besides the S/42 and ser #.

More if I find it...

Lugerdoc · 03-01-2003, 09:26 AM

Leon, The mag that you describe above sounds like an extruded FXO mag that has had the bottom replaced and repinned in the earlier folded mag fashion. Tom H.

A.Mifsin · 03-02-2003, 05:21 AM

Leon. I agree with Tom that the bottom of the Mag is replaced because FXO mag have their bottom piece pinned in the center.
Alfred

Leon · 03-02-2003, 08:52 PM

OK, it was re done, but who and when? Did the Germans re work the magazines?

A.Mifsin · 03-03-2003, 01:31 PM

Leon, it doesn't have to be the Germans, it could be anybody.(a gunsmith maybe) When and why, your guess is good as mine.
Alfred

02-09-2003, 04:23 PM	#1
Leon User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	K Date Info request Hello- just found this site and am glad to find others w/like interests. I just aquired my first Luger (I've been patiently waiting for the right one...). It's a K date w/matching magazine. The front of the frame is marked w/a small scriptic 'a' below the serial #836. The magazine is blued metal w/an aluminum bottom and a waffenamt 37 stamp (in two places)- I'd be obliged if anyone could tell me anything about the production time frame (early or late '34?), etc. or places to find out about the history of the particular piece. Thanks in advance <img border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" title="" src="graemlins/drink.gif" /> , and Semper Fi.

02-12-2003, 06:44 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,962 Thanks: 2,062 Thanked 4,592 Times in 2,114 Posts	Leon, any way I can help someone serving our country, just ask. Been out three years, have a son serving now, so I understand the time issue. Need something, like posting pictures or poggie bait, just ask. Edward Tinker SSG (RET) US Army Military Police __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-25-2003, 12:34 PM	#6
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	Hi, As far as I know (subject to corretion) the K Dated Lugers were isued with a nickel plated mag, and the blued fxo type was of the last type of the 4 different mags issued with Mauser Lugers. Then how came that this mag is matching numbers to a K dated Luger? Alfred __________________ I prefer a Luger

02-25-2003, 12:51 PM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	A.Mifsin Leon didn't specifically say that it was an FXO magazine... just that it has a blue tube and an aluminum bottom... Your question about matching serial numbers on the magazine seem to be right on target for the information that we have... Perhaps Leon can find the time to post closeup photographs of his first Luger and it's magazine... that would be very helpful for identificaton. welcome aboard Leon... from another retired Army guy. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

02-25-2003, 04:04 PM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Okay then... that gives Leon's question a new emphasis... How would a pistol of this vintage end up with two FXO mags that have matching serial numbers? Could it have been re-issued with factory magazines after the FXO mags became standard? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

02-09-2003, 06:45 PM	#2
Silvereagle29 User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Washington State Posts: 105 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Leon You can purchase any luger book and find additional information on your new pistol. Serial number 836a is near the end of the 1934 - K - date production. December of 1934 or January of 1935 might be a really good guess. This serial number range is the transition area to the G-S/42. The Luger will have B-90 S-91 acceptance marks on the right receiver and a type 1 test proof. There will be no Navy marks because the Luger is way out of the normal Reichsmarine serial number range. The magazine you describle is probably also marked with a "fxo" and P 08 mark and would have a concave pinned aluminum base and extruded type blue body construction. If the P 08 mark is upside down it's the early "fxo" magazine used in mid-1941. Later "fxo" magazines had a rightside up P 08 mark. If the magazine is the same design but has a 122 code than it would be common to a 1940-42, 41-42 and early 41-byf. If you find the correct magazine, it will have a rolled/crimped nickel body with a solid aluminum base. On the base will be the serial number, the suffix letter - a - also a "+" if, it's the second magazine. The aluminum base will have a B-90 nspector/acceptance mark. Good Luck.

02-09-2003, 08:02 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,962 Thanks: 2,062 Thanked 4,592 Times in 2,114 Posts	Hello Leon! Good to have you here, if you stay, you'll want more than one! And Semper Fi, that sounds like some former Marine?? (retired army, so a big welcome and <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> ) __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-12-2003, 01:49 PM	#4
Leon User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the scoop- the marks are as described above, I will take the time (when I find some) to fill out the form and see what you folks think it's worth- I got it from what I consider a reputable dealer. If only I had more time... The Mag has two 37 waffenamts, both on the left side as you would view it (assuming the bullet's nose were the front). On the right (same side as the waffenamts) bottom is the P-08 stamp- the P is covered by a pin that holds the magazine bottom in place. The bottom is a single piece of aluminum w/the only the serial # stamped on it. Semper Fi and thanks- I'm an active duty Marine. Leon

02-25-2003, 03:41 PM	#8
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 164 Times in 87 Posts	John, if it's a blue tube with an aluminum bottom and two E/37 acceptance marks it's an fxo!!

02-25-2003, 04:14 PM	#10
Pelorat User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: North Charleston, SC Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have it on very good authority that there is no such thing as a 'former' Marine... Active, Reserve, Retired, Deceased, but never 'former'! (can you tell I got yelled at once for asking if a buddy's friend was a 'former Marine'?)

02-25-2003, 05:15 PM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,962 Thanks: 2,062 Thanked 4,592 Times in 2,114 Posts	yes, that is why I said "former", to pull a Marines chain, but only slightly, You are right, once a Marine, always a Marine, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> And if I wasn't in mixed company, I'd tell a joke or two, but what it actually comes down to, is if you served, more power to you, __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-25-2003, 06:25 PM	#12
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 164 Times in 87 Posts	John, if he has a K-Date, the magazines should be plated, not blue. If indeed the fxo magazine is numbered to the pistol, I see two possibilities. Someone found a match with an fxo, less the suffix letter (doubtful an fxo mag with an "a suffix" exists) or Waffenamt USA has been involved. Some fxo magazines contain no serial number on the base. If one has the number die, one can imprint any number you want. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

02-26-2003, 07:42 AM	#13
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	TWIMC, Most E.German reworks originally came into the US with 2 matching EG numbered mags. These mags were made on the original WW2 matchinery but are usually unmarked or marked 2/1001 for the Ernst Thaumann Werks. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

02-26-2003, 12:58 PM	#14
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	Maybe, Leon could tell us what kind of spring the mag has. because if it is the zig-zag type then it is either typy 3 or typ4(FXO)mag. Type 3 were issued late 1939,1940 and type 4 were issued with 41 and 42 byf code lugers. Alfred __________________ I prefer a Luger

02-28-2003, 09:14 PM	#15
Leon User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Alright, I've been a bit preoccupied w/things- but have a few minutes. The magazine is dark colored and shows silver metal where it is worn from insert/extract from the weapon. It is marked in 3 places: 2 waffenamts #37- one high and one low on the forward left of the magazine, (assuming the bullet end of the round is forward). The lower amt has fxo above it. Bottom, aft, left side has P08 w/the P on the bottom (if the magazine were loaded, and you laid it on its back w/the bullet end of the round facing up, you would read P08 from left to right). The P is gone as a pin to hold magazine bottom has been installed 'through' it. The pin hasn't been touched (visibly) and shows the same wear pattern as the rest of the magazine. The bottom of the magazine is aluminum, all one piece, and marked w/the serial # in the center and S/42 on the top (bullet end). No such thing as an 'x' Marine (Marine is ALWAYS capitalized in print, you know). Tried to upload some picture, to no avail- but I found a helpful soul (Ed Tinker) who I can fwd the pics to who said he'd post them for me. I'll dig around and see if I can find a photo of a 'plated' mag vs. the blued tube versions- the hell is in the details. And I've learned more about this thing on this web sight in few short weeks than I thought possible- NICE JOB.

02-28-2003, 09:25 PM	#16
Leon User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	OK, just sorted through some pictures and submit the following additional info: The mag is definitely a blued tube fxo. The bottom is unlike any photos- it is attached to the magazine by a pin at the rear (hence the P being obliterated by the pin placement) vice a pin thru the center of the bottom. There are no other markings besides the S/42 and ser #. More if I find it...

03-01-2003, 09:26 AM	#17
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Leon, The mag that you describe above sounds like an extruded FXO mag that has had the bottom replaced and repinned in the earlier folded mag fashion. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

03-02-2003, 05:21 AM	#18
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	Leon. I agree with Tom that the bottom of the Mag is replaced because FXO mag have their bottom piece pinned in the center. Alfred __________________ I prefer a Luger

03-02-2003, 08:52 PM	#19
Leon User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	OK, it was re done, but who and when? Did the Germans re work the magazines?

03-03-2003, 01:31 PM	#20
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	Leon, it doesn't have to be the Germans, it could be anybody.(a gunsmith maybe) When and why, your guess is good as mine. Alfred __________________ I prefer a Luger