KÃ?Â¼ questions

nahpatronen · 04-06-2003, 05:51 AM

I have been offered a KÃ?Â¼ - No. 4119 KÃ?Â¼ byf 41. It's of the black widow type and it looks as when it left the factory. Which type of magazine is correct for this BW ?
How can I see if the grips are genuine ? I presume they are correct since the gun looks as it never had been fired.
I have some photos but I can't see how to upload them ?
Thanks
Nahpatronen

Edward Tinker · 04-06-2003, 12:48 PM

Nahpatronen, I can't help you with your Luger questions, but there is a tutorial on loading photos under site help and feedback:

http://forums.lugerforum.com/lugerfo...;f=11;t=000072

It sounds more complicated than it is, you upload the picture, copy the address and drop it into the text box.

nahpatronen · 04-07-2003, 09:22 AM

See two photos here:

Thx
Mr Nahpatronen

John Sabato · 04-07-2003, 10:17 AM

nahpatronen,

May I request that you send a closeup photo (in sharp focus) of the two small oval positioning islands on the lower inside of the left grip to me at lugerforum@yahoo.com

They will be used in a study of BW grips known to be genuine.

thanks.

nahpatronen · 04-24-2003, 10:03 AM

nahpatronen · 04-24-2003, 10:11 AM

Please delete the message above.
I should wish to know how to show a photo directly here - and not only a link to the photo
Nahpatronen

ratdog · 04-24-2003, 10:24 AM

Just copy and paste the example from the UBB Code instruction page, then replace the URL with yours, see below...............

ratdog · 04-24-2003, 10:25 AM

.

ratdog · 04-24-2003, 10:57 AM

Like this:

Edward Tinker · 04-24-2003, 11:15 AM

Thanks Ratdog, they almost had it, it comes down to this (with no spaces)

[URL=http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Kunr.jpg

This needs to be UBB code and [b]not[/b] html, so it would look like this (with no spaces) =http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Kunr.jpg

and if you want the picture to show up on the page, then you do this (with no space after the .jpg):

[img]=http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Kunr.jpg [/img]

To those with a engineer background, think of it like this, you are telling the comptuer what to look for, the URL tells it to show up as a link, then IMG tells it to show it as a picture. Computers are as smart as what we tell them to do.

Ed

Navy · 04-24-2003, 05:53 PM

That gun certainly looks buffed and re-blued to my tired eyes.
Tom A.

kidvett · 04-24-2003, 11:07 PM

RatDog,

WOW! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> What is that?? 74 LS-4?? Specs?? Bracket time??

I also like those....will be at Carlisle PA end of August with an L83 of mine...

kidvett <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

ratdog · 04-25-2003, 08:46 AM

Kid, it is a 75 with 350, tunnel ram with dual Holleys. It basically is a driver and a major piece of crap that needs work all the time. This is my good Vette. 69 427/390 71K miles

Kid, screw Carlisle, drop by (40 miles from Carlisle) and we'll go shooting. I have all the major German weapon groups needed for a healthy shooting life. MG42, MP40, P38, K98's, G43, G41. Sorry, I don't shoot my Luger!!!

nahpatronen · 04-25-2003, 11:20 AM

I had a Ford V8 Ã?Â´32 cabriolet but I think it's ceaper to collect guns.
To the man with the tired eyes: All KÃ?Â¼'s are completely black "blued" but not all have black grips. Some have wooden grips.

nahpatrone -Message edited by Admin (JS) to correct image display syntax... You should use no equal sign in front of the "http" and as indicated above there should be no space after the ".jpg"

And I am sure that "tired eyes" Tom A above was refering primarily to the appearance of the metal finish seems to indicate that the Luger was re-polished post manufacture and then reblued... While I can't be certain because it is only a photograph... I tend to agree with Tom A that this Luger has been refinished... it is a FINE looking Luger-John Sabato

Thanks
Nahpatronen

Aaron · 04-25-2003, 01:34 PM

byf 41 and 42 Lugers do often seem to appear as though they are refinished compared to examples manufactured in earlier years. There is something about the blackish dip type finish which makes them resemble post war Russian reworks. If you handle enough of them the appearance of the finish becomes more normal to the observer.

John Sabato · 04-25-2003, 02:58 PM

Hi again Aaron,

After studying your photographs a while I have decided that my vote must fall on the side of a Luger that has been refinished... This is for several reasons, but let me point out the most obvious to me...

In the photo below, the serial number digit "9" on the takedown lever (B) is similar, but is definitely wider than the "9" that appears on the sideplate (C), the upper receiver (A) and the sear (D). These appear to have been original strikes... but the number on the takedown lever is not from the same tool. Second, the surface of the flat on the takedown lever just isn't (flat) as is normally seen on original parts. It appears to have been buffed which has caused a slight rounding of the surface that used to be flat. The condition of the overall blue appears that it has never been in contact with a holster...especially on the sideplate... IMHO This is not likely on gun of this vintage and when you combine this with the serial number disparity I have pointed out, it adds up to an overhaul. Since the small numbers "42" appear on the the upper receiver and the sideplate, I believe that this gun was repaired or rebuilt at Oberndorf at some point, having some parts replaced, and then refinished and re-issued... and then possibly reworked by someone else like the Russians or East Germans.

lastly, the digit "1" on the takedown lever does not seem to match the other areas identified.

Naturally, this is all speculation on my part, but I believe it is speculation based on sufficient evidence to warrant my conclusions.

just my

Navystv · 04-25-2003, 06:44 PM

I've noticed the s/n digits on small parts, as take down lever, sear and safety lever are smaller (and look different) then those on side plate, upper receiver and toggle.
Which is the rule?

M.

Navy · 04-25-2003, 09:26 PM

John,
I think you are saying my tired eyes were correct. Thanks for the back-up.
Tom A.

Dwight Gruber · 04-25-2003, 10:26 PM

Navystv,

The 1910 (rev. 1914) regulations for marking Lugers specify the size of the serial number stamp on various parts. Parts such as the side plate, upper receiver, and toggle are stamped with numerals 2.1mm high. Smaller parts are stamped with numerals 1.5mm high.

Although one would expect the typeface for the numerals to be the same, it appears that there is some variation in Mauser manufactured Lugers.

--Dwight

Johnny C. Kitchens · 04-25-2003, 11:37 PM

Something I noticed, is the eagle in front of the toggle pivot on the breech block. It is a different style from the ones I see in pictures for byf 41. Did the KU version have a different eagle there???

04-06-2003, 05:51 AM	#1
nahpatronen User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 32 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	KÃ?Â¼ questions I have been offered a KÃ?Â¼ - No. 4119 KÃ?Â¼ byf 41. It's of the black widow type and it looks as when it left the factory. Which type of magazine is correct for this BW ? How can I see if the grips are genuine ? I presume they are correct since the gun looks as it never had been fired. I have some photos but I can't see how to upload them ? Thanks Nahpatronen

04-06-2003, 12:48 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Nahpatronen, I can't help you with your Luger questions, but there is a tutorial on loading photos under site help and feedback: http://forums.lugerforum.com/lugerfo...;f=11;t=000072 It sounds more complicated than it is, you upload the picture, copy the address and drop it into the text box. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-07-2003, 10:17 AM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	nahpatronen, May I request that you send a closeup photo (in sharp focus) of the two small oval positioning islands on the lower inside of the left grip to me at lugerforum@yahoo.com They will be used in a study of BW grips known to be genuine. thanks. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-24-2003, 11:15 AM	#10
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Thanks Ratdog, they almost had it, it comes down to this (with no spaces) [URL=http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Kunr.jpg This needs to be UBB code and [b]not[/b] html, so it would look like this (with no spaces) =http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Kunr.jpg and if you want the picture to show up on the page, then you do this (with no space after the .jpg): [img]=http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Kunr.jpg [/img] To those with a engineer background, think of it like this, you are telling the comptuer what to look for, the URL tells it to show up as a link, then IMG tells it to show it as a picture. Computers are as smart as what we tell them to do. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-25-2003, 02:58 PM	#16
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Hi again Aaron, After studying your photographs a while I have decided that my vote must fall on the side of a Luger that has been refinished... This is for several reasons, but let me point out the most obvious to me... In the photo below, the serial number digit "9" on the takedown lever (B) is similar, but is definitely wider than the "9" that appears on the sideplate (C), the upper receiver (A) and the sear (D). These appear to have been original strikes... but the number on the takedown lever is not from the same tool. Second, the surface of the flat on the takedown lever just isn't (flat) as is normally seen on original parts. It appears to have been buffed which has caused a slight rounding of the surface that used to be flat. The condition of the overall blue appears that it has never been in contact with a holster...especially on the sideplate... IMHO This is not likely on gun of this vintage and when you combine this with the serial number disparity I have pointed out, it adds up to an overhaul. Since the small numbers "42" appear on the the upper receiver and the sideplate, I believe that this gun was repaired or rebuilt at Oberndorf at some point, having some parts replaced, and then refinished and re-issued... and then possibly reworked by someone else like the Russians or East Germans. lastly, the digit "1" on the takedown lever does not seem to match the other areas identified. Naturally, this is all speculation on my part, but I believe it is speculation based on sufficient evidence to warrant my conclusions. just my __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-07-2003, 09:22 AM	#3
nahpatronen User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 32 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	See two photos here: Thx Mr Nahpatronen

04-24-2003, 10:03 AM	#5
nahpatronen User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 32 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

04-24-2003, 10:11 AM	#6
nahpatronen User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 32 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Please delete the message above. I should wish to know how to show a photo directly here - and not only a link to the photo Nahpatronen

04-24-2003, 10:24 AM	#7
ratdog User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 147 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Just copy and paste the example from the UBB Code instruction page, then replace the URL with yours, see below...............

04-24-2003, 10:25 AM	#8
ratdog User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 147 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	.

04-24-2003, 10:57 AM	#9
ratdog User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 147 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Like this:

04-24-2003, 05:53 PM	#11
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	That gun certainly looks buffed and re-blued to my tired eyes. Tom A.

04-24-2003, 11:07 PM	#12
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	RatDog, WOW! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> What is that?? 74 LS-4?? Specs?? Bracket time?? I also like those....will be at Carlisle PA end of August with an L83 of mine... kidvett <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

04-25-2003, 08:46 AM	#13
ratdog User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 147 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Kid, it is a 75 with 350, tunnel ram with dual Holleys. It basically is a driver and a major piece of crap that needs work all the time. This is my good Vette. 69 427/390 71K miles Kid, screw Carlisle, drop by (40 miles from Carlisle) and we'll go shooting. I have all the major German weapon groups needed for a healthy shooting life. MG42, MP40, P38, K98's, G43, G41. Sorry, I don't shoot my Luger!!!

04-25-2003, 11:20 AM	#14
nahpatronen User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 32 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I had a Ford V8 Ã?Â´32 cabriolet but I think it's ceaper to collect guns. To the man with the tired eyes: All KÃ?Â¼'s are completely black "blued" but not all have black grips. Some have wooden grips. *nahpatrone -Message edited by Admin (JS) to correct image display syntax... You should use no equal sign in front of the "http" and as indicated above there should be no space after the ".jpg"* And I am sure that "tired eyes" Tom A above was refering primarily to the appearance of the metal finish seems to indicate that the Luger was re-polished post manufacture and then reblued... While I can't be certain because it is only a photograph... I tend to agree with Tom A that this Luger has been refinished... it is a FINE looking Luger-John Sabato Thanks Nahpatronen

04-25-2003, 01:34 PM	#15
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	byf 41 and 42 Lugers do often seem to appear as though they are refinished compared to examples manufactured in earlier years. There is something about the blackish dip type finish which makes them resemble post war Russian reworks. If you handle enough of them the appearance of the finish becomes more normal to the observer.

04-25-2003, 06:44 PM	#17
Navystv User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Italy Posts: 17 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I've noticed the s/n digits on small parts, as take down lever, sear and safety lever are smaller (and look different) then those on side plate, upper receiver and toggle. Which is the rule? M.

04-25-2003, 09:26 PM	#18
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	John, I think you are saying my tired eyes were correct. Thanks for the back-up. Tom A.

04-25-2003, 10:26 PM	#19
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	Navystv, The 1910 (rev. 1914) regulations for marking Lugers specify the size of the serial number stamp on various parts. Parts such as the side plate, upper receiver, and toggle are stamped with numerals 2.1mm high. Smaller parts are stamped with numerals 1.5mm high. Although one would expect the typeface for the numerals to be the same, it appears that there is some variation in Mauser manufactured Lugers. --Dwight

04-25-2003, 11:37 PM	#20
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	Something I noticed, is the eagle in front of the toggle pivot on the breech block. It is a different style from the ones I see in pictures for byf 41. Did the KU version have a different eagle there??? __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens