Carbine On Cover Of Reese Luger Tips

[cirelaw]

I recently noticed the carbine on the cover of his book had a rear sight as a parts carbine. My carbine was purchase from Ralph Shattuck who provided several images in the book according the credits.

[DonVoigt]

Eric,
original carbines do not have a sight on the rear toggle.
Neither do original artillery lugers.

Even if they are on a book cover or came from Mr. Luger Wizard.

[cirelaw]

1920 luger carbines were made from left over part during the Weimer period, See Land of Borchardt! '1920 carbine' often referred to as the "Parts Carbines" Your assumption is correct as to the prior 1902 carbine! The serial# is 3231t and its all matching and proofed~ '31' through out~ https://www.landofborchardt.com/lugerads.html see 1920s A 'New Model Parts Gun'

[Norme]

Looking at Eric's carbine is an oddly disturbing experience, one doesn't know whether to be attracted or repelled. It's like being confronted by a beautiful woman with three boobs.
Norm

[cirelaw]

I must recognize Jerry Burney for his most beautiful leather work!

[DonVoigt]

The rear sight on the toggle is also incorrect for "1920" carbines; the rear sight on the toggle is useless as the barrel sight is taller.

The toggle sight is also easily removed during "manufacture" of such a carbine, even if surplus artillery rear toggles were not immediately available( but they were and still are).

The toggle sight does not belong on a carbine; unless it is one of the "navy" type sights and no barrel sight is used.

[cirelaw]

Don, All three sights line up exactly!!!! Elevations are perfect! Detailed pictures in and out tomorrow~ Then decide, please! Thank You!!

[Dick Herman]

Rear toggle sights are relatively common on 1920 era artillery and carbine Lugers. They are not needed but must have been in the original assemblers parts kit.
In that period of time the prime objective was to produce as many pistols as possible before the Versailles Treaty rules were imposed. In 1921 when the IMKK rules were imposed a very limited number of military weapons could be manufactured for the German Army and police.
Under the IMKK rules DWM only produced commercial Luger in .30 caliber with 3 7/8 inch barrels.

[cirelaw]

Thanks Dick,, you actually saw it in person when you visited us in Florida two year ago! I cant wait to post it all apart!!

[cirelaw]

After The Storm~

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by Dick Herman

Rear toggle sights are relatively common on 1920 era artillery and carbine Lugers. They are not needed but must have been in the original assemblers parts kit.
In that period of time the prime objective was to produce as many pistols as possible before the Versailles Treaty rules were imposed. In 1921 when the IMKK rules were imposed a very limited number of military weapons could be manufactured for the German Army and police.
Under the IMKK rules DWM only produced commercial Luger in .30 caliber with 3 7/8 inch barrels.

Dick,
I must respectfully disagree.
The rear sight on the toggle is useless and any self respecting 'smith or builder can remove it in a few minutes, even with a file.

These commercial carbines have nothing to do with the IMKK.
I doubt any were produced between 1919 and 1921, as Germany was in compete disarray and would not be able to "export" arms during that time. Later in the 1920's , yes. JMHO

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by cirelaw

Don, All three sights line up exactly!!!! Elevations are perfect! Detailed pictures in and out tomorrow~ Then decide, please! Thank You!!

In your pictures post at least one with a straight edge(ruler) from the front sight to the sight on the barrel and extending past the rear most sight.

[Norme]

I have to agree with Don here, the idea that a German gunsmith, particularly one employed at the DWM factory, would assemble a carbine with three sights is beyond absurd. Also, I can't agree with Dick's assertion that three sights are "relatively common on 1920 era Artillery and Carbine Lugers". I have yet to come across one, other than Eric's.
Norm

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Norme

...I can't agree with Dick's assertion that three sights are "relatively common on 1920 era Artillery and Carbine Lugers". I have yet to come across one, other than Eric's.
Norm

I also have Reese's Luger Tips, with the 3-sight carbine on the cover. Reese acknowledges that Ralph Shattuck is "...the top Luger dealer in the United States whose Lugers can be seem throughout this publication".

Given that Eric bought his carbine from Ralph, I think it is quite possible that the carbine Eric bought is the one on the Luger Tips cover, courtesy of Ralph.

[cirelaw]

Thank You, Richard! I didnt even notice it till I Purchased the book from Amazon about 3 years ago!!! A pleasant surprise~

[Dick Herman]

{Also, I can't agree with Dick's assertion that three sights are "relatively common on 1920 era Artillery and Carbine Lugers". I have yet to come across one, other than Eric's.
Norm}

In response to this comment, I have seen several 1920 era Artillerys with a toggle rear sight. I have a 1920 Artillery with a toggle rear sight with matching numbers. This Artillery was purchased from a very reputable dealer. After the IMKK imposed their restrictions military caliber and barrel length were manufactured for commercial sales.

[DonVoigt]

I have seen them too, does not mean they are correct or original.
Matching toggles- only the last 2 numbers, are frequently/occasionally improperly "restored" pistols.
Makes no difference at all what dealer it came from.

Anything is possible, just not likely or "proven" . JMHO.

[Mister Sunshine]

The same picture was on the cover of the March 1967 issue of Guns & Ammo magazine. I thought it looked so good I saved it. I don't care if the sight is correct or not, the carbine looks great.