Gentleman, i realy puzzled ....

wolfganggo · 09-30-2017, 08:03 AM

hello to all specialist here in the forum.
herman historica presents his new autumn auction catalog.
looking at the old ww-I pieces i found at DWM made weapons some with breechblocks with obvius erfurt eagle proof.
herman's technical experts are excelent professionals, so i think thex would not overlook this matter and classify these guns as excelent, nummerngleich.

next i checked the auction catalog of joop van der kants gerneral sellout of parabellums. here i found the same situation, DWM made lugers with erfurt proofs.

look at: https://www.hermann-historica.de/de/...5#lg=1&slide=0

anyone out there who can help to break the knot in my brains

regards from austria

wolfganggo ....

.

Vlim · 09-30-2017, 10:37 AM

IIRC it is thought that an Erfurt inspector transferred to DWM for a while and took his stamps with him.

Vlim · 09-30-2017, 01:17 PM

There were military inspectors assigned to DWM. They were idmfficially responsible for the acceptance. In practice the accepting was done by civilian staff, under supervision and end responsibility of the official acceptance officer.

It seems there was simply a temporary shift in supervisors. Could have been any cause or reason.

DonVoigt · 09-30-2017, 02:12 PM

Another possibility is the breech block was produced and inspected at Erfurt, sold/transferred to DWM to cover a shortage and numbered by DWM, or is a Erfurt un-numbered replacement part- also numbered to match when used for repair.

Since we don't know the number on the breech block, it could also be mis-matched with the original numbered extractor installed.

Along a similar line, we do know that many of the matching, numbered DWM Artillery barrels show the "Erfurt" proof on the right side, rear of the sight base area.

George Anderson · 09-30-2017, 03:06 PM

The stamp represents an individual civilian employee of the government not a manufacturer. Similarly one sees Eagle/6 weapon stamps on items coming from Suhl long after Simson ceased to exist.

wolfganggo · 09-30-2017, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Another possibility is the breech block was produced and inspected at Erfurt, sold/transferred to DWM to cover a shortage and numbered by DWM, or is a Erfurt un-numbered replacement part- also numbered to match when used for repair.

this seems implausibly to me, the nature of the proof ist to check the assenbled wepaon under intensified loadconditions. so i can not imagine that the breechblock alone got an powerproofstamp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Since we don't know the number on the breech block, it could also be mis-matched with the original numbered extractor installed.

as mentioned:
more then one weapon, in hermann historicas auctionsdescription as numbers-matching described, plus some of the guns from joops collection show this feature. i don't belive they all fail in this way ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Along a similar line, we do know that many of the matching, numbered DWM Artillery barrels show the "Erfurt" proof on the right side, rear of the sight base area.

i found following forums-entry: http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=27872

thx for your toughts and regards from austria, wolfganggo ....

wolfganggo · 09-30-2017, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlim

IIRC it is thought that an Erfurt inspector transferred to DWM for a while and took his stamps with him.

vlim hello,
interesting conclusion and correspondig to the first part of an forums-entry i found a few minutes ago: http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=27872

by the way:
what surprises me at the first moment, is, that after proofshooting of the weapon, obvious more than one inspector was investigating the parts of the gun.
maybe on inspector was checking an stamping the barrel and breechblock, the other the receiver

thx and regards from austria, wolfganggo ....

.

09-30-2017, 08:03 AM	#1
wolfganggo User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: near vienna Posts: 93 Thanks: 1 Thanked 81 Times in 18 Posts	Gentleman, i realy puzzled .... hello to all specialist here in the forum. herman historica presents his new autumn auction catalog. looking at the old ww-I pieces i found at DWM made weapons some with breechblocks with obvius erfurt eagle proof. herman's technical experts are excelent professionals, so i think thex would not overlook this matter and classify these guns as excelent, nummerngleich. next i checked the auction catalog of joop van der kants gerneral sellout of parabellums. here i found the same situation, DWM made lugers with erfurt proofs. look at: https://www.hermann-historica.de/de/...5#lg=1&slide=0 anyone out there who can help to break the knot in my brains regards from austria wolfganggo .... .

09-30-2017, 02:12 PM	#4
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,678 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts	Another possibility is the breech block was produced and inspected at Erfurt, sold/transferred to DWM to cover a shortage and numbered by DWM, or is a Erfurt un-numbered replacement part- also numbered to match when used for repair. Since we don't know the number on the breech block, it could also be mis-matched with the original numbered extractor installed. Along a similar line, we do know that many of the matching, numbered DWM Artillery barrels show the "Erfurt" proof on the right side, rear of the sight base area. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

09-30-2017, 10:37 AM	#2
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,043 Thanks: 1,032 Thanked 3,930 Times in 1,194 Posts	IIRC it is thought that an Erfurt inspector transferred to DWM for a while and took his stamps with him.

09-30-2017, 01:17 PM	#3
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,043 Thanks: 1,032 Thanked 3,930 Times in 1,194 Posts	There were military inspectors assigned to DWM. They were idmfficially responsible for the acceptance. In practice the accepting was done by civilian staff, under supervision and end responsibility of the official acceptance officer. It seems there was simply a temporary shift in supervisors. Could have been any cause or reason.

09-30-2017, 03:06 PM	#5
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	The stamp represents an individual civilian employee of the government not a manufacturer. Similarly one sees Eagle/6 weapon stamps on items coming from Suhl long after Simson ceased to exist.