30 cal Luger

[Major Tom]

I've read where these pistols are hard to get them running right. So, what seems to be the hiccup with this caliber?

[Edward Tinker]

Actually they can be 7.65mm (30 Luger) or 9mm and the German gov't used over 2 million of them in 2 world wars, so actually I would say, most run right. It many times depends on if matching gun, if a good magazine if right ammo etc.

More finicky than say, a 1911a1 but obviously used in war time and police.

[Chickenthief]

My limited 7,65x21 Parabellum~.30 Luger experience is that you have to load them "hot".
With a 93grain bullet pressures can be held in the medium/high zone.
With ie. a 73grain bullet the way hot loads comes in as it is momentum that drives the recoil/reloading.
So when bullet weight goes down speed has to move up to compensate.

The top of my 95mm~3.75" barreled pistol weighs 422gram~.929lbs and needs a recoil energy of @2.2joule~1.63ftlbs to reload reliably.

So:
Original DWM load 93grain bullet at 1213fps (1.64ftlbs)
A 73grain bullet needs to go @465m/s~1525fps (tall order!)
A 85grain bullet needs to go @399m/s~1310fps (my reloads from sunday went @382m/s~1253fps and did'nt reload at all. Not a single one out of 100). 1310fps is barely doable within pressure limits with the powders i have acess to.

All y'all with longer barrels are better off as speed comes free from the fact.

85gr jacketed bullet set to 29mm~1.14"
4.7gr Bullseye is about max.
5.2gr Unique is about max.
6.3gr Longshot is about max.
5.8gr WAP is about max.

These are the only US powders that will give a complete burn in such a short tube and keep pressures below max.
Bear in mind that this is guestimates made with Quickload and as always YMMW.

I have good results with Lees 93gr .311 bullet cast to 86gr (94% lead + 3% tin + 3% antimony).
Pushed to @1280fps it reloads reliably every time and ejects with autority.
As a lead bullet is easier to push through, pressures are lower and speed comes a result of that.

On a sidenote i have a Heckler & Koch 630 roller delayed blow back semiauto in .223.
That pig needs to be spanked in order to reload reliably. Drop MV 10% from max. and its transformed to a manual repeater.

[Major Tom]

So then, shooting a 125gr. fmj bullet would provide the oomph needed to reliably work the action?

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by Major Tom

So then, shooting a 125gr. fmj bullet would provide the oomph needed to reliably work the action?

You won't find a 125g .30 cal bullet suitable to load in the .30 luger.

Search on this subject there are several threads with much info on the trials and tribulations of getting the .30 cal luger to run.

Most of the problem centers around "weak" commercial ammo.

Reloaders can solve the problem.

93gr is the "standard" load for the .30.

In 9mm the original was 123/124gr and evolved to the currently standard 115gr. There are many variations of 9mm loads also, but the caliber is a little more forgiving of the load.

I have succeeded in geting all manner of .30 luger to run, from a 2.5" bbl to 11.5" bbl, sometimes by varying the load and others the load and the recoil spring.

Maybe you will be lucky, some, even many run great "out of the box" so to speak. You will find Privi Partizan ammo is hotter and has worked well for me. There are at least two different loadings of Fiocchi out there, one works- one does not.

But please do the search and read.

[spartacus38]

Hi Don,
Fiocchi:are you talking about FMJ vs soft point?I have had better luck with the FMJ.
Bob

[rhuff]

Originally Posted by spartacus38

Hi Don,
Fiocchi:are you talking about FMJ vs soft point?I have had better luck with the FMJ.
Bob

I do also, as the Fiocchi JSP ammo is a jam-a-matic in my 30 Lugers. Others on this forum have reported zero problems with the JSP ammo. Every Luger is it's own "animal".

I have found in handloading the 30 Luger brass to stick with 93gr FMJ, 93gr LRN, and 85gr JSP bullets for my best results. The 85gr JSP can be more of a problem then the other two bullets.

I have moved away from the fast powders like Bullseye, and Red Dot to the medium burners like Unique, as it seems to give a better recoil response that the toggle train likes/responds to.

In the 30 Luger caliber, I load my rounds at the upper end of the charts for the most reliable functioning, and have moved away from any "soft" rounds. It is a trial and error situation, but I don't find the 30 Luger round any more difficult to make function in a P08 then a 9mm round. YMMV

[4 Scale]

I have some .30 Luger Parabellum pistols that will flawlessly shoot either Fiocchi or Privi Partizan FMJ, and some that will only shoot the later. I've heard the Privi P. is a little bit hotter. I have also measured the overall length and the Privi P. is slightly longer, which seems to help with feeding in some pistols.

[DonVoigt]

True,
Privi that I have shot is both hotter and longer- both frequently help.
Some Fiocchi rounds are quite short, and under loaded; some just short.