Federal confusion

cirelaw · 01-26-2017, 02:09 PM

I'm in Florida and have my FLA Concealed Carry permit and Federal Relics and Curio license. I want to purchase a carry gun for Debby on Gunbroker who also has a Fla Concealed carry. I submitted all to a large dealer and was told I still need a fed transfer agent! Whats the story? Is there another licence that I need? Eric

wayne8661 · 01-26-2017, 02:36 PM

Eric What type of gun are you looking to buy for conceal and carry? Is it on the Curio and Relic list?

Edward Tinker · 01-26-2017, 03:54 PM

If you go to a Florida gunshow you can buy from a private party (unless laws changed) or buy from a gun store, Debby will need to buy it, or is best to because if you say its for your wife, it can be misconstrued as a straw buy (by some folks).

Anything over the state line, anything newer than 50 years must go to a FFL 01 - your FFL 03 collector is for collector guns.

Ed

DonVoigt · 01-26-2017, 04:02 PM

Eric,
I thought you were a lawyer? or used to be.
If you bid on an auction you buy it. Not Debbie. So the transfer has to be to your dealer or to you as a C&R holder.

If you say, "I'm buying it for Debbie(or anyone), then it is a straw sale and prohibited.

Makes no sense in this case, but them's the rules!

DavidJayUden · 01-26-2017, 04:23 PM

Many sellers simply will not sell guns to C&R guys, they insist on sending to FFL's. Also many FFL dealers refuse to receive from non-ffl's. It is maddening and it is not required by law, but the FFL can apparently do business just however they darn well please so long as the little guy is the one being inconvenienced.

spartacus38 · 01-26-2017, 04:23 PM

Don,
Could he buy it,own it, and then gift it to his wife?

cirelaw · 01-26-2017, 04:59 PM

Licensed spouses are fine in this case!!! We both possess our own Florida Concealed Weapon Permit. A curio relics permit only apply to certain old firearms. It was purchased on Gunbroker that has a list of transfer agents. I found one less than a mile away! The laws have changed since 1981 and back at Villanova Law School! I guess that would fall under Constitutional Law~~Eric

RichSr · 01-26-2017, 05:30 PM

No, the federal law regulating the interstate transfer of handguns has not really changed since October 22nd 1968. All out of state purchases of non curio and relic handguns must go through a FFL 01

gunbugs · 01-27-2017, 05:37 PM

Your Concealed permit may allow you to carry handguns legally in another state, depending on reciprocity, but does not permit you to purchase handguns in ANY other state. Your C&R license only allows you to buy C&R firearms across state lines for the enhancement of your collection. The C&R generally is useless for purchasing modern firearms. From your first post I got the impression you were trying to have a modern firearm shipped to you on your C&R. Correct me if I am wrong. Your Concealed permit and C&R have nothing to do with each other.

cirelaw · 01-27-2017, 06:03 PM

Yes You are correct and Thank You for making it simple! Useing Gunbroker, I located a transfer agent a few miles away. It is a modern gun! We both have our Florida concealed carry permits so no problem. Whats the story with my Federal C&R Permit? I spoke to our local Sherrif and friend of 20 years. No problem. My tranfer agent sent the seller his paper work! What my C&R good for? Where do lugers fit in? Thanks for all of your advice! PS Alaska Someday!!! Very Cooool!

cirelaw · 01-27-2017, 06:19 PM

Doug I Found It!! https://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios-relics Fifty Year old fall into the Curio and Relics excemption! That one reason I will stick to my 20 old lugers! Eric

gunbugs · 01-28-2017, 12:16 AM

Hope it all works out. Most FFLs will transfer for around 20 bucks these days. Been "in the business" for over 30 years. I generally try to keep things simple for my customers. On another point, I would say that most local law enforcement personnel are bad sources of advice on firearms law. They are not "schooled" on the intricacies of FEDERAL firearms law. Again, best wishes, Doug

01-26-2017, 02:09 PM	#1
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,135 Times in 2,174 Posts	Federal confusion I'm in Florida and have my FLA Concealed Carry permit and Federal Relics and Curio license. I want to purchase a carry gun for Debby on Gunbroker who also has a Fla Concealed carry. I submitted all to a large dealer and was told I still need a fed transfer agent! Whats the story? Is there another licence that I need? Eric

01-26-2017, 04:02 PM	#4
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,442 Thanked 4,352 Times in 2,040 Posts	Eric, I thought you were a lawyer? or used to be. If you bid on an auction you buy it. Not Debbie. So the transfer has to be to your dealer or to you as a C&R holder. If you say, "I'm buying it for Debbie(or anyone), then it is a straw sale and prohibited. Makes no sense in this case, but them's the rules! __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

01-26-2017, 05:30 PM	#8
RichSr User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: West Texas Posts: 128 Thanks: 153 Thanked 54 Times in 36 Posts	No, the federal law regulating the interstate transfer of handguns has not really changed since October 22nd 1968. All out of state purchases of non curio and relic handguns must go through a FFL 01 __________________ Rich

01-27-2017, 06:03 PM	#10
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,135 Times in 2,174 Posts	Solved Yes You are correct and Thank You for making it simple! Useing Gunbroker, I located a transfer agent a few miles away. It is a modern gun! We both have our Florida concealed carry permits so no problem. Whats the story with my Federal C&R Permit? I spoke to our local Sherrif and friend of 20 years. No problem. My tranfer agent sent the seller his paper work! What my C&R good for? Where do lugers fit in? Thanks for all of your advice! PS Alaska Someday!!! Very Cooool!

01-26-2017, 02:36 PM	#2
wayne8661 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kennett Square Pennsylvania Posts: 591 Thanks: 15 Thanked 334 Times in 104 Posts	Eric What type of gun are you looking to buy for conceal and carry? Is it on the Curio and Relic list?

01-26-2017, 03:54 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,941 Thanks: 2,039 Thanked 4,547 Times in 2,100 Posts	If you go to a Florida gunshow you can buy from a private party (unless laws changed) or buy from a gun store, Debby will need to buy it, or is best to because if you say its for your wife, it can be misconstrued as a straw buy (by some folks). Anything over the state line, anything newer than 50 years must go to a FFL 01 - your FFL 03 collector is for collector guns. Ed

01-26-2017, 04:23 PM	#5
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Many sellers simply will not sell guns to C&R guys, they insist on sending to FFL's. Also many FFL dealers refuse to receive from non-ffl's. It is maddening and it is not required by law, but the FFL can apparently do business just however they darn well please so long as the little guy is the one being inconvenienced.

01-26-2017, 04:23 PM	#6
spartacus38 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Lake Tahoe,CA. Posts: 695 Thanks: 0 Thanked 70 Times in 56 Posts	Don, Could he buy it,own it, and then gift it to his wife?

01-26-2017, 04:59 PM	#7
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,135 Times in 2,174 Posts	Licensed spouses are fine in this case!!! We both possess our own Florida Concealed Weapon Permit. A curio relics permit only apply to certain old firearms. It was purchased on Gunbroker that has a list of transfer agents. I found one less than a mile away! The laws have changed since 1981 and back at Villanova Law School! I guess that would fall under Constitutional Law~~Eric

01-27-2017, 05:37 PM	#9
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 660 Thanks: 367 Thanked 1,180 Times in 395 Posts	Your Concealed permit may allow you to carry handguns legally in another state, depending on reciprocity, but does not permit you to purchase handguns in ANY other state. Your C&R license only allows you to buy C&R firearms across state lines for the enhancement of your collection. The C&R generally is useless for purchasing modern firearms. From your first post I got the impression you were trying to have a modern firearm shipped to you on your C&R. Correct me if I am wrong. Your Concealed permit and C&R have nothing to do with each other.

01-27-2017, 06:19 PM	#11
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,135 Times in 2,174 Posts	Doug I Found It!! https://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios-relics Fifty Year old fall into the Curio and Relics excemption! That one reason I will stick to my 20 old lugers! Eric

01-28-2017, 12:16 AM	#12
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 660 Thanks: 367 Thanked 1,180 Times in 395 Posts	Hope it all works out. Most FFLs will transfer for around 20 bucks these days. Been "in the business" for over 30 years. I generally try to keep things simple for my customers. On another point, I would say that most local law enforcement personnel are bad sources of advice on firearms law. They are not "schooled" on the intricacies of FEDERAL firearms law. Again, best wishes, Doug