my profile |
register |
faq |
search upload photo | donate | calendar |
09-21-2016, 03:30 PM | #1 |
User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: near Charlotte NC
Posts: 4,678
Thanks: 1,441
Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts
|
Fine Erfurt 1917/1920 PS police luger with intact(repaired) mag safety
Just received this one from an auction where it flew under the radar-
thanks to all who did not post a link to the auction! It is a super condition 1917 Erfurt with the 1920 property stamp of the Weimar Republic. All parts are numbered matching - except the striker which has no number. The piece was re-finished in the day- likely when it went into police service or received its sear and magazine safety upgrades. No unit markings present. Magazine is a replacement nickle/aluminum numbered matching and with */K on the lower spine. Both grips have a */K inside; the left grip has a large 91 also, and the mods for the mag safety; the right grip may be the original Erfurt grip with a smaller 91 present and a */K-perhaps struck over the original Erfurt inspection. As mentioned in the title, the Walther designed magazine safety has been repaired and is operable as intended. While the repair is well executed, it is not a perfect representation of the original part. The "tab" that protrudes into the magazine well should be a little larger and rounded; but the repair suffices to show how the device was intended to work. A 1937 order was issued to remove all magazine safeties, as they were problematic in use, requiring very fine adjustment to work properly. Photos 4 & 5 show the mag safety installed and then partially removed by sliding down wards. The magazine when inserted moves the arm outwards(photo 7 & 9), removing the tab from behind the trigger- allowing it to fire. When the magazine is removed, spring tension of the arm moves the tab into the empty mag well(photo 6), and the trigger tab behind the trigger- so that the trigger cannot be pulled far enough to release the sear(photo 8). Very few original, un-altered magazine safeties have been found, as nearly all seem to have been removed in service. Sometimes just the tabs are removed, sometimes the end of the arm is clipped, sometimes the arm is clipped really short, and occasionally the arm is entirely removed leaving the slot empty, and even less frequently the slot is welded and spot refinished! The Schwy sear safety(photo 3) is also present and operable, as are many other examples; these were never ordered removed in use. The sear safety has a pin that locks the sear bar when the side plate is removed, so that the sear bar cannot be depressed when the "canon" is removed from the frame. This was installed due to un-intended discharges resulting from leaving a live round in the pistol when field stripped for cleaning. I believe you can figure out the operation from the several pictures posted.
__________________
03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie Last edited by DonVoigt; 09-22-2016 at 09:20 PM. |
The following 13 members says Thank You to DonVoigt for your post: |
09-21-2016, 03:35 PM | #2 |
User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: near Charlotte NC
Posts: 4,678
Thanks: 1,441
Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts
|
More pictures of the Erfurt 1917/1920
Several more pictures of the pistol.
Last two are two views of the magazine safety when removed.
__________________
03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie |
The following 10 members says Thank You to DonVoigt for your post: |
09-21-2016, 06:14 PM | #3 |
User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,225
Thanks: 2,679
Thanked 929 Times in 509 Posts
|
Congratulations! It's a very interesting piece.
It's the first operating magazine safety that I see. |
09-22-2016, 04:43 PM | #4 |
Patron
LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,429
Thanks: 67
Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts
|
Don, have you found documentation indicating why the Walther safety was ordered removed or disabled? There has been a lot of speculation but, to my knowledge, no one has determined the reason(s) unequivocally.
__________________
Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com |
09-22-2016, 05:52 PM | #5 |
Lifer
Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal...
Posts: 8,182
Thanks: 1,398
Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts
|
I'm not Don, but...According to Sturgess & Gortz, in Chapter 17 of TBLAP, "By order of the 'Reichs Leader SS and Chief of the German Police' of 27 May 1937, trigger safeties of any kind were to be disabled. This obviously referred to the Walther magazine safety".
__________________
I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter... |
09-22-2016, 06:33 PM | #6 |
Patron
LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302
Posts: 5,089
Thanks: 6
Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts
|
Nice job of restoring a mag safety. Logically, these were removed as the spring lost it shape, it would continue to block the trigger, even with the mag installed. TH
|
09-22-2016, 09:23 PM | #7 | |
User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: near Charlotte NC
Posts: 4,678
Thanks: 1,441
Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts
|
Quote:
only your, Ed's, and Sturgess books; the comment about fine adjustment is my editorial comment. The two tabs must be in near perfect adjustment(length), or the safety won't work correctly. Not a great leap of intuition to see why they were a problem, but no documentation.
__________________
03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie |
|
09-23-2016, 11:16 AM | #8 | |
Patron
LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,429
Thanks: 67
Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts
|
Quote:
__________________
Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com |
|
09-23-2016, 02:41 PM | #9 | |
User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: near Charlotte NC
Posts: 4,678
Thanks: 1,441
Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts
|
Quote:
I'm not sure this is "other confirmation" you are looking for; but, as they used to say in math class- "the solution is obvious", or in this case the reason, IMHO.
__________________
03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie |
|
09-23-2016, 04:22 PM | #10 |
Lifer
Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Georgia
Posts: 193
Thanks: 696
Thanked 173 Times in 66 Posts
|
Don, as a retired mathematics professor, I like the second part of the professor who states that the solution is obvious...he walks out of the class and returns 45 minutes later stating, yes, it is obvious.
Jim |
09-26-2016, 12:35 PM | #11 |
Patron
LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,429
Thanks: 67
Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts
|
I have seen several different reasons proposed over the years that also seemed obvious. Perhaps it was "all of the above." I just feel these should be presented as opinions rather than facts. Enough said!
__________________
Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com |
|
|