Sideplate disassembled after field strip for jam

Pier23 · 06-12-2016, 11:02 AM

Hi all,

First time poster, so please forgive my ignorance of things P08.

A friend was firing a 1939 mixmaster P08 the other day, with generic 9mm FMJ ammo, when the pistol locked completely up.

I could not determine if the cartridge has fired, so I field stripped it at the range.

When I pulled the side plate off, the assembly disassembled itself, with the toggle gizmo (note lack of knowledge of P08s...) and the bent rod (trigger lever pin????) falling completely free of the sideplate.

I _think_ I have all the fiddly-bits back together properly. I have not fired it yet, but the pistol locks open normally when hand-actuated.

YouTube vids show the bent pin locking in place in the sideplate, requiring a screwdriver to pop it free. Mine does not snap into place, it just lays in its position.

The toggle gizmo on the vids also has one side with a very noticeable ...ummm...catch to it? A prong? Mine has a slight swelling on one end but not as pronounced as the one in the vid.

What is the purpose of this toggle gizmo? It is the prong end that goes into the frame?

Am I looking at worn parts that need to be replaced, or is this sideplate just one of a number of variarions?

Just what does the sideplate do? And does it matter which way the bent pin is put in the sideplate? It appears to have another function other than just holding the toggle gizmo in place.

What do I need to do to verify the sideplate is assembled correctly, and could loose sideplate parts cause the pistol to lock tight???

Thank you!

And again, my apologies for the imprecision of the terminology!

kurusu · 06-12-2016, 11:29 AM

If you could provide some pictures. It might be easier for trying to help out.

lugerholsterrepair · 06-12-2016, 11:59 AM

YouTube vids show the bent pin locking in place in the sideplate, requiring a screwdriver to pop it free. Mine does not snap into place, it just lays in its position.

The bent rod holding in the trigger lever MUST pop into the bottom of the sideplate edge. If it does not recoil will jar it loose and it will dis assemble.

And does it matter which way the bent pin is put in the sideplate? No..it is ambidextrious.

What do I need to do to verify the sideplate is assembled correctly, and could loose sideplate parts cause the pistol to lock tight??? If the bent pin will NOT lock up it WILL happen again. If you have it assembled and it will dry fire the weapon it is assembled correctly. But..the pin must lock in place or it will not stay assembled as you know.

DonVoigt · 06-12-2016, 11:59 AM

I believe the "gizmo" is the trigger lever; its purpose is to connect the trigger to the sear bar- and when the trigger is pulled, fire the pistol.

The bent pin, is just to hold the lever in place; it is longer in one leg than the other(at least some are, maybe not all), and if original may only go in the side plate in one direction.

It is possible your pin is bent, or the slight depression in the side plate is worn; or that it was just not fully assembled(correctly), first I'd try a new old stock or known good pin.

You can likely get one from Lugerdoc who posts here.

lugerholsterrepair · 06-12-2016, 12:59 PM

it is longer in one leg than the other(at least some are, maybe not all), and if original may only go in the side plate in one direction.

On all the pins I have seen they seem the same length on either leg. But..the end that is pressed into the bottom of the sideplate and snapped in may be burred, flattened, dented or otherwise deformed so that it will not then easily slip into the holes of the trigger lever. So even though it was once able to be installed either way..it may not after installation a few times. On many I have installed they snap in quite forcefully. The one I just checked is an Erfurt and I actually snapped it in with a hammer and drift.

Olle · 06-12-2016, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

it is longer in one leg than the other(at least some are, maybe not all), and if original may only go in the side plate in one direction.

On all the pins I have seen they seem the same length on either leg. But..the end that is pressed into the bottom of the sideplate and snapped in may be burred, flattened, dented or otherwise deformed so that it will not then easily slip into the holes of the trigger lever. So even though it was once able to be installed either way..it may not after installation a few times. On many I have installed they snap in quite forcefully. The one I just checked is an Erfurt and I actually snapped it in with a hammer and drift.

I have never checked the lengths of the legs, but I have noticed that some won't snap in unless you turn it "the right way" (whatever that may be). If it still won't snap, I'll just put it in a soft jaw vise an tap it gently with a brass hammer to bend a bit, this will make it fit tighter in the side plate. It's just a piece of bent wire, so I would assume that it's not always a precision product.

Pier23 · 06-12-2016, 02:02 PM

Thank youall!

I know the wire has not snapped into position, so I will pull the sideplate off and get some snaps of the assy. I would be interested in seeing if anyone detects excessive wear that should be replaced or if my issues were newbie ignorance.

Pier23 · 06-12-2016, 04:41 PM

OK, took the sideplate off again, and I have to realize that Lugers only go together ONE way.

The trigger lever has two unequal sides, the shorter side goes into the frame.

The locking wire has two different lengths, the LONGER side has to be in the sideplate for a "snap" to occur, and this snap is resulting from thr wire pressing against the case, not by snapping into some detent on the "floor" of the sideplate.

Here are the pix of what I have, which near as I can figger is the correct orientation of all the fiddly-bits.

[URL="http://s1317.photobucket.com/user/dwallbaum2/media/image_zpsrxlorfks.jpeg.html]

[IMG]

[/IMG]

[IMG]

[/IMG]

DonVoigt · 06-12-2016, 09:45 PM

Please don't call them "fiddley bits", there are only 2 removable pieces, a pin and a lever, simple enough. You have them correctly orientated.

Your lever has been tampered with, modified, altered or changed, I'd be surprised if it works correctly. But if it does, fine.

Just turn the pin so it locks in. If it does not lock in, try bending it- which will be tough to get right; or buy another one.

Pier23 · 06-12-2016, 10:02 PM

Thank you, Don,

My apologies, but I am a fiddley-bit kinda person, since I seldom have the specific knowledge to correctly identify all the ... fiddley-bits I come across in my life.

Are replacement trigger levers available?

Where may I find such? (i reread this thread and your reference to Lugerdoc.. mssg is on the way thx!)

I need to function test the weapon, and I do want to get it into reliable shooting form.

Thx!

tomaustin · 06-12-2016, 10:55 PM

it is damn important to not have any fiddley-bits left over....good luck...tom

DonVoigt · 06-13-2016, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pier23

Thank you, Don,

My apologies, but I am a fiddley-bit kinda person, since I seldom have the specific knowledge to correctly identify all the ... fiddley-bits I come across in my life.

Are replacement trigger levers available?

Where may I find such? (i reread this thread and your reference to Lugerdoc.. mssg is on the way thx!)

I need to function test the weapon, and I do want to get it into reliable shooting form.

Thx!

Yes,
Lugerdoc (Tom) should have levers also.

Lugerdoc · 06-13-2016, 08:05 AM

I do have a few original PO8 trigger levers left in stock, but the interior angle formed by the legs mag vary, so these are not always interchangable, so you may want to have a lugersmith install it in your side plate and assure that the movement is sufficient to allow your sear to release the striker. TH

Pier23 · 06-13-2016, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomaustin

it is damn important to not have any fiddley-bits left over....good luck...tom

That has always been my problem!

Though my larger issue is the tendancy to assume that any part will fit anywhere given sufficient application of force. That, among other reasons, is why I am useless at jigsaw puzzles - drives my wife to fits.

Pier23 · 06-13-2016, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lugerdoc

I do have a few original PO8 trigger levers left in stock, but the interior angle formed by the legs mag vary, so these are not always interchangable, so you may want to have a lugersmith install it in your side plate and assure that the movement is sufficient to allow your sear to release the striker. TH

Thank you!

I am going to test the pistol today, and if it functions I will call it "fixed". I think I was bitten by the next to last person who had the sideplate off, and I don't think things were put back correctly. I had the sideplate off to do a clean and lube after purchase, and I didn't futz with the sideplate mechanics, though it WAS after my strip that the gun malfed....anyway, I am blaming someone else and declaring myself a victim.

Your email address is in your sig line, if I find I need another trigger lever, I will drop you an email.

Thank you again!

Don Wallbaum

Eugen · 06-13-2016, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pier23

Thank you!

I am going to test the pistol today, and if it functions I will call it "fixed". I think I was bitten by the next to last person who had the sideplate off, and I don't think things were put back correctly. I had the sideplate off to do a clean and lube after purchase, and I didn't futz with the sideplate mechanics, though it WAS after my strip that the gun malfed....anyway, I am blaming someone else and declaring myself a victim.

Your email address is in your sig line, if I find I need another trigger lever, I will drop you an email.

Thank you again!

Don Wallbaum

Don, I am glad to hear you are on your way to getting your Luger working properly. Your nice photo work, your narrative and the advice from others was helpful to me. As a new Luger owner myself, I have learned so much from all the experienced and knowledgeable folks on this forum that are so willing to share with us newbies. What a swell bunch.

From yet another Don (aka Eugen)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Please don't call them "fiddley bits", there are only 2 removable pieces, a pin and a lever, simple enough. You have them correctly orientated.

Hey, Don, fiddley bits, fiddley bits, fiddley bits, fiddley bits, fiddley bits, fiddley bits, fiddley bits!!! LOL

DonVoigt · 06-13-2016, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pier23

That has always been my problem!

Though my larger issue is the tendancy to assume that any part will fit anywhere given sufficient application of force. That, among other reasons, is why I am useless at jigsaw puzzles - drives my wife to fits.

I can tell you from experience, that the lever is pretty hard/brittle; try to bend it and it may or will break!

Don#3 or is it #4-Eugen,
I am a little slow and can never keep in my mind which fiddly bit is being discussed.

Pier23 · 06-13-2016, 03:09 PM

One other oddly basic question: is the sideplade mechanism - trigger lever - an area of routine lubrication?

I can see that lubing this area may cause the trigger bar to move (bad) but NOT lubing could cause the trigger lever to not- well... not lever... (also bad).

Thx!

kurusu · 06-13-2016, 03:30 PM

Just one dab of your lubricant of choice in the lever axis, and your good to go.

06-12-2016, 11:02 AM	#1
Pier23 User Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sideplate disassembled after field strip for jam Hi all, First time poster, so please forgive my ignorance of things P08. A friend was firing a 1939 mixmaster P08 the other day, with generic 9mm FMJ ammo, when the pistol locked completely up. I could not determine if the cartridge has fired, so I field stripped it at the range. When I pulled the side plate off, the assembly disassembled itself, with the toggle gizmo (note lack of knowledge of P08s...) and the bent rod (trigger lever pin????) falling completely free of the sideplate. I _think_ I have all the fiddly-bits back together properly. I have not fired it yet, but the pistol locks open normally when hand-actuated. YouTube vids show the bent pin locking in place in the sideplate, requiring a screwdriver to pop it free. Mine does not snap into place, it just lays in its position. The toggle gizmo on the vids also has one side with a very noticeable ...ummm...catch to it? A prong? Mine has a slight swelling on one end but not as pronounced as the one in the vid. What is the purpose of this toggle gizmo? It is the prong end that goes into the frame? Am I looking at worn parts that need to be replaced, or is this sideplate just one of a number of variarions? Just what does the sideplate do? And does it matter which way the bent pin is put in the sideplate? It appears to have another function other than just holding the toggle gizmo in place. What do I need to do to verify the sideplate is assembled correctly, and could loose sideplate parts cause the pistol to lock tight??? Thank you! And again, my apologies for the imprecision of the terminology!

06-12-2016, 12:59 PM	#5
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	it is longer in one leg than the other(at least some are, maybe not all), and if original may only go in the side plate in one direction. On all the pins I have seen they seem the same length on either leg. But..the end that is pressed into the bottom of the sideplate and snapped in may be burred, flattened, dented or otherwise deformed so that it will not then easily slip into the holes of the trigger lever. So even though it was once able to be installed either way..it may not after installation a few times. On many I have installed they snap in quite forcefully. The one I just checked is an Erfurt and I actually snapped it in with a hammer and drift. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

06-12-2016, 04:41 PM	#8
Pier23 User Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	OK, took the sideplate off again, and I have to realize that Lugers only go together ONE way. The trigger lever has two unequal sides, the shorter side goes into the frame. The locking wire has two different lengths, the LONGER side has to be in the sideplate for a "snap" to occur, and this snap is resulting from thr wire pressing against the case, not by snapping into some detent on the "floor" of the sideplate. Here are the pix of what I have, which near as I can figger is the correct orientation of all the fiddly-bits. [URL="http://s1317.photobucket.com/user/dwallbaum2/media/image_zpsrxlorfks.jpeg.html] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG]

06-12-2016, 09:45 PM	#9
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,443 Thanked 4,355 Times in 2,041 Posts	Please don't call them "fiddley bits", there are only 2 removable pieces, a pin and a lever, simple enough. You have them correctly orientated. Your lever has been tampered with, modified, altered or changed, I'd be surprised if it works correctly. But if it does, fine. Just turn the pin so it locks in. If it does not lock in, try bending it- which will be tough to get right; or buy another one. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

06-13-2016, 08:05 AM	#13
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	I do have a few original PO8 trigger levers left in stock, but the interior angle formed by the legs mag vary, so these are not always interchangable, so you may want to have a lugersmith install it in your side plate and assure that the movement is sufficient to allow your sear to release the striker. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

06-12-2016, 11:29 AM	#2
kurusu User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,225 Thanks: 2,679 Thanked 930 Times in 509 Posts	If you could provide some pictures. It might be easier for trying to help out.

06-12-2016, 11:59 AM	#3
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	YouTube vids show the bent pin locking in place in the sideplate, requiring a screwdriver to pop it free. Mine does not snap into place, it just lays in its position. The bent rod holding in the trigger lever MUST pop into the bottom of the sideplate edge. If it does not recoil will jar it loose and it will dis assemble. And does it matter which way the bent pin is put in the sideplate? No..it is ambidextrious. What do I need to do to verify the sideplate is assembled correctly, and could loose sideplate parts cause the pistol to lock tight??? If the bent pin will NOT lock up it WILL happen again. If you have it assembled and it will dry fire the weapon it is assembled correctly. But..the pin must lock in place or it will not stay assembled as you know. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

06-12-2016, 02:02 PM	#7
Pier23 User Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank youall! I know the wire has not snapped into position, so I will pull the sideplate off and get some snaps of the assy. I would be interested in seeing if anyone detects excessive wear that should be replaced or if my issues were newbie ignorance.

06-12-2016, 10:02 PM	#10
Pier23 User Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you, Don, My apologies, but I am a fiddley-bit kinda person, since I seldom have the specific knowledge to correctly identify all the ... fiddley-bits I come across in my life. Are replacement trigger levers available? Where may I find such? (i reread this thread and your reference to Lugerdoc.. mssg is on the way thx!) I need to function test the weapon, and I do want to get it into reliable shooting form. Thx!

06-12-2016, 10:55 PM	#11
tomaustin Lifer X5 Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: texas Posts: 708 Thanks: 87 Thanked 522 Times in 201 Posts	it is damn important to not have any fiddley-bits left over....good luck...tom

06-13-2016, 03:09 PM	#18
Pier23 User Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	One other oddly basic question: is the sideplade mechanism - trigger lever - an area of routine lubrication? I can see that lubing this area may cause the trigger bar to move (bad) but NOT lubing could cause the trigger lever to not- well... not lever... (also bad). Thx!

06-13-2016, 03:30 PM	#19
kurusu User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,225 Thanks: 2,679 Thanked 930 Times in 509 Posts	Just one dab of your lubricant of choice in the lever axis, and your good to go.