Bulgarian Contract P08 Questions

rpbcps · 09-14-2015, 12:54 PM

Colleagues,
This is my 2nd post and hoping some of you with expertise in Bulgarian P08's, can help me with some answers.

I am looking at a 'deactivated' Bulgarian contract P08 Luger, but there are a few items on it which I am not sure about.

First thing I note is the lack of the lanyard loop on the lower back strap. Could it be that the frame is not an original Bulgarian contract frame but has been replaced?

I believe the magazine is the wrong model for this Luger, not wooden base. There are no markings on the bottom of the luger, any ideas which time period this is from?

Reviewing the Standard Catalogue of Luger, (SCL), downloaded from Amazon, I note the Lion and the crown stamp on the toggle are not the same as the example given on the 'SCL'.

I found another deactivated Bulgarian P08 luger, with the same crest as the one in the one I am looking, but it is worn away more, that Luger obviously had heavy use in the past.

Was there different versions of the royal crest used when the 1910 Bulgarian contract was being produced?

Another search resulted in finding photos of a Deactivated Bulgarian Contract 1906 model on the internet and note that the royal crest is different on that model.

Thank you in advance for any assistance in answering these questions.

Stay safe
Richard

Ron Wood · 09-14-2015, 03:40 PM

Richard,
The Luger is a correct 1908 Bulgarian with an original frame. If you remove the grips you will see a hole in the frame at the bottom of the grip where wire loop lanyard ring was installed. The crest on the toggle and the small lion acceptance mark on the right side of the receiver are correct for this model. In addition there should be a scrolled DWM on the receiver over the chamber. I can't tell from the photos but it may have been removed. The magazine is a modern navy-type reproduction.
The markings on a 1906 Bulgarian is very different. An elaborate Bulgarian crest is over the chamber and the DWM marking is on the toggle. Here is a photo of both the 1906 and 1908 examples.
Ron

rpbcps · 09-14-2015, 04:49 PM

Ron,
Thank you for that confirmation.

It does have the scrolled DWM on the receiver.

Stay safe
Richard

tomaustin · 09-14-2015, 10:31 PM

why 'deactivated'....?

Sergio Natali · 09-15-2015, 08:50 AM

I send pictures of mine although is not so nice.

Best

Sergio

alanint · 09-15-2015, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomaustin

why 'deactivated'....?

One would speculate that Richard lives in England.

sheepherder · 09-15-2015, 09:41 AM

I would be uneasy about the toggle crest and the safety script. They appear to have been cut with a square-edged rotary tool (like a pantograph mill) rather than stamped. There are no haloes (from the displaced metal of stamping) and I would expect the engraving to be done with a pointed tool (not square edged).

If Ron says it's legit, it must be, since Ron has been buying/selling/examining/collecting these since Pontius was a navigator...

Ron Wood · 09-15-2015, 10:37 AM

The markings are OK...and I helped out with the design specifications for dirt.

rpbcps · 09-15-2015, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

One would speculate that Richard lives in England.

I occassionaly visit England, and that is the location of my collection. Currently I am in Algeria working and spend more time in Spain during my downtime. After 20+ years working in Africa, I hate cold weather climates

Sheepherder and Ron thank you for your question / confirmation, it is appreciated.

Sorry for delay in reply, due to my location I am not on line on a regular basis, hence I am unable to respond quickly to posts.

Stay safe
Richard

rpbcps · 09-15-2015, 02:52 PM

Sergio,
Nice photos, I note the lanyard loop is absent from yours as well,, I wonder if this is common?

Stay safe
Richard

alanint · 09-15-2015, 02:59 PM

It was a requirement of the Bulgarian contract.

Ron Wood · 09-15-2015, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

It was a requirement of the Bulgarian contract.

What was the requirement? If you mean the placement of the lanyard loop at the bottom of the grip, you are correct. If you meant the removal of the lanyard loop, then no.

Sergio Natali · 09-16-2015, 05:16 AM

Richard

They are supposed to have a lanyard ring, unfortunately there are not that many of them around, and so far I've never seen an original one in very good condition.

Sergio

alanint · 09-16-2015, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

What was the requirement? If you mean the placement of the lanyard loop at the bottom of the grip, you are correct. If you meant the removal of the lanyard loop, then no.

I meant the placement of the Lanyard loop at the bottom. I imagine DWM then decided there was no need to have two loops on the pistol.

rpbcps · 09-16-2015, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luger.parabellum

Richard

They are supposed to have a lanyard ring, unfortunately there are not that many of them around, and so far I've never seen an original one in very good condition.

Sergio

Sergio,
Thank you for that confirmation.

I am waiting for the seller to get back to me now.

Stay safe
Richard

09-14-2015, 12:54 PM	#1
rpbcps Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Home base UK, but spend a lot of time overseas working. Posts: 125 Thanks: 62 Thanked 158 Times in 49 Posts	Bulgarian Contract P08 Questions Colleagues, This is my 2nd post and hoping some of you with expertise in Bulgarian P08's, can help me with some answers. I am looking at a 'deactivated' Bulgarian contract P08 Luger, but there are a few items on it which I am not sure about. First thing I note is the lack of the lanyard loop on the lower back strap. Could it be that the frame is not an original Bulgarian contract frame but has been replaced? I believe the magazine is the wrong model for this Luger, not wooden base. There are no markings on the bottom of the luger, any ideas which time period this is from? Reviewing the Standard Catalogue of Luger, (SCL), downloaded from Amazon, I note the Lion and the crown stamp on the toggle are not the same as the example given on the 'SCL'. I found another deactivated Bulgarian P08 luger, with the same crest as the one in the one I am looking, but it is worn away more, that Luger obviously had heavy use in the past. Was there different versions of the royal crest used when the 1910 Bulgarian contract was being produced? Another search resulted in finding photos of a Deactivated Bulgarian Contract 1906 model on the internet and note that the royal crest is different on that model. Thank you in advance for any assistance in answering these questions. Stay safe Richard Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

09-14-2015, 03:40 PM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,035 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,242 Times in 1,719 Posts	Richard, The Luger is a correct 1908 Bulgarian with an original frame. If you remove the grips you will see a hole in the frame at the bottom of the grip where wire loop lanyard ring was installed. The crest on the toggle and the small lion acceptance mark on the right side of the receiver are correct for this model. In addition there should be a scrolled DWM on the receiver over the chamber. I can't tell from the photos but it may have been removed. The magazine is a modern navy-type reproduction. The markings on a 1906 Bulgarian is very different. An elaborate Bulgarian crest is over the chamber and the DWM marking is on the toggle. Here is a photo of both the 1906 and 1908 examples. Ron Attached Thumbnails __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-14-2015, 04:49 PM	#3
rpbcps Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Home base UK, but spend a lot of time overseas working. Posts: 125 Thanks: 62 Thanked 158 Times in 49 Posts	Ron, Thank you for that confirmation. It does have the scrolled DWM on the receiver. Stay safe Richard Attached Thumbnails

09-15-2015, 08:50 AM	#5
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,087 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	I send pictures of mine although is not so nice. Best Sergio Attached Thumbnails __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

09-15-2015, 09:41 AM	#7
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,195 Thanks: 1,414 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	I would be uneasy about the toggle crest and the safety script. They appear to have been cut with a square-edged rotary tool (like a pantograph mill) rather than stamped. There are no haloes (from the displaced metal of stamping) and I would expect the engraving to be done with a pointed tool (not square edged). If Ron says it's legit, it must be, since Ron has been buying/selling/examining/collecting these since Pontius was a navigator... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

09-14-2015, 10:31 PM	#4
tomaustin Lifer X5 Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: texas Posts: 708 Thanks: 87 Thanked 522 Times in 201 Posts	why 'deactivated'....?

09-15-2015, 10:37 AM	#8
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,035 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,242 Times in 1,719 Posts	The markings are OK...and I helped out with the design specifications for dirt. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-15-2015, 02:52 PM	#10
rpbcps Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Home base UK, but spend a lot of time overseas working. Posts: 125 Thanks: 62 Thanked 158 Times in 49 Posts	Sergio, Nice photos, I note the lanyard loop is absent from yours as well,, I wonder if this is common? Stay safe Richard

09-15-2015, 02:59 PM	#11
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	It was a requirement of the Bulgarian contract.

09-16-2015, 05:16 AM	#13
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,087 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Richard They are supposed to have a lanyard ring, unfortunately there are not that many of them around, and so far I've never seen an original one in very good condition. Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.