New Data Reguarding Our Hero and his inventions

[cirelaw]

http://www.smallarmsreview.com/displ...idarticles=485 This is the finest about our hero anywhere~~Eric

[sheepherder]

Hohohohoho!!! That's great!!!

Where's Albert???

"Accordingly, he wrote on July 10, 1907 that, “his pistols were in hot demand and were being made for Russian officers. Due to these circumstances, I had the opportunity to meet and talk with Russian military attaché von Taticheff and colonel von Michelson.” In fact, Luger met relatively unimportant officials of the Russian embassy Aleksei Borisovich Tastishchev (1904-1990) and military attaché, colonel Alexander Alexandrovitch Mihelson. Three months later, on October 12, he stated that “a large quantity of Parabellum was being manufactured for Russia, Germany and Switzerland,” and on August 9, 1913 he writes as “he is busy with pistols because a quantity of 125,000 weapons have been ordered for the German army and 18,000 for Holland and the USA.”"

[cirelaw]

Who knew!!!!

[mrerick]

Several things about this article are interesting.

It documents, to some extent, Luger's loyalty to customers as a salesman. This was, of course, ultimately loyalty to his own interests as he made sales.

Marc

[Ron Wood]

Oh my! That is not what Albert would like to hear. I am sure he will dismiss the article as something I made up.

[drbuster]

Ron, I think the current salient point of Albert's is that he claims that the safe and extractor markings on the 1906 crossed rifle luger are in Bulgarian. During your recent absence, Giuliano, a Forum member in Italy, presented information that he had Bulgarian/Russian language experts with linguistic degrees express confidently that the markings were Bulgarian and couldn't possibly be Russian, even in the period of 1906, before the "modernization" of the Russian written language after 1917. Thus, if we are to believe such language experts, then the point of the extractor being Russian is moot. The revelations of the information presented above, however, re-opens the element of doubt that DWM (in Georg Luger's letter) was in fact manufacturing lugers for the Russian officer corps.

[cirelaw]

I had the feeling that this article packed with so much cause some to be take another look with Uncle Georg~~

[cirelaw]

Another of his articles dealing with our NAVY LUGERS http://www.smallarmsreview.com/displ...darticles=1537 Check out the substantial index at the end of your article~~

[drbuster]

It is interesting that I own Gouv. Kiau, serial #4582 to add to the list. Kompanie 4, Waffe #30.

[cirelaw]

Good For You, Great Score!!! TKS for your input~~

[cirelaw]

Another Study On The 1904 Navy~~ http://tonnel-ufo.ru/eanglish/weapon/sample-1904.php A great Navy historical article! The finest I have come discovered on our Navy luger thus far!! Eric

[Ron Wood]

Herb:

In continued pursuit of this tedious topic , I have never disagreed with the notion that the safety marking is indeed Bulgarian, it is, but I know for a fact that the marking is also discernible by Russian speakers of any era, both as to pronunciation and meaning (FIRE).

So the controversy to be resolved is the extractor marking. According to Guiliano’s university professor, "On Luger sellers pretending to be Russian, the ones with the two crossed rifles, there is written, respectively, ЗАРЯДЪ (extractor / ejector) and ОГЪНЪ FIRE (security). They are both Bulgarian words and I never get tired of explaining to those unfamiliar with Russian or Bulgarian ...". She is absolutely correct, but that is only half of the story. The extractor marking is first and foremost Russian (I can’t emphasize that enough!) which also happens to be the same in Bulgarian in the nominative case, a fact which was confirmed on Jan Still’s forum by Val Berman, a native Russian speaker. So to state that the extractor marking “couldn’t possibly be Russian” is fallacious, and the attribution of the language is far from “moot”.

I am growing weary of the constant insistence that the guns cannot be anything else than Bulgarian. This is hogwash. They might be Bulgarian, but the only thing truly Bulgarian is the safety marking which, regardless of pseudo national pride that Germans never made a mistake, was most likely an erroneous application by DWM. There is absolutely no marking on the guns, other than the safety, that even hints at Bulgarian. All of the Bulgarian Lugers (Models 1900, 1906 and 1908) carried one or more Bulgarian national emblems…why would such a distinctive indication of Bulgarian property be abandoned for the crossed-rifle Lugers? And with respect to the extractor marking, why would a perfectly logical Bulgarian inscription for “loaded” be replaced by an ambiguous marking meaning “a charge”?

Lastly, the other assertion that keeps rearing its ugly head is the notion that these guns were a “government contract”. That is another absurdity…there is nothing whatsoever that indicates that the government, Bulgarian or Russian, had anything to do with the acquisition of these Lugers. If any “contract” existed, it would have been with a commercial retailer or a civilian equipment supplier to the military. The most damning blow to the government contract farce and the most conclusive argument for Russian commercial sale is: "Accordingly, he wrote on July 10, 1907 that, “his pistols were in hot demand and were being made for Russian officers”. Russian officers were required to purchase their own side arms which automatically makes the Lugers commercial, not government, weapons.

I wish this would put this topic to bed…but it won’t…so I am going to bed

Good night
Ron

[drbuster]

Convincing argument, Ron. The "Bulgarian closed case" is once again open IMHO!

[cirelaw]

Maybe this can help shed some light~http://www.landofborchardt.com/Bulga...l-article.html Eric

[drbuster]

Eric, the Charles Whittaker owned Land of Borchardt shown above demonstrates the model 1911 (1908) Bulgarian with the lanyard loop on the frame handle bottom. This is not a controversial luger. We are agonizing over the 1906 model with serial numbers under 1000 and with the crossed M/N rifiles stamped on the chamber top. Nevertheless it is always good to see Chuck Whittaker's material.

[sheepherder]

Oh look! Some interested member has linked Eric's post on Jan Still's forum.

http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...Russian-Lugers

[cirelaw]

Thank You for the clarification, I majored was history before law and I love luger detective work!! Every one is unique in of it itself~ Thank God we have yourself and others who have bitten by the luger and are still scratching! ~~Eric

[Ron Wood]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Nobody wants to bait the hook, eh???

OK, I'll do it!

http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...Russian-Lugers

You know, you can't put the genie back in the bottle.

[cirelaw]

But you can find a bigger bottle!

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

You know, you can't put the genie back in the bottle.

Interesting comment on 1906 Russian Luger magazines from a noted Luger collector...

http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...y-correct-with