Luger S/42 1937 with PSE marked barrel

photo-war · 05-12-2014, 03:53 PM

Dear forum members!

I was advised to ask here concerning the Luger I have. The barrel of this gun has a marking – PSE on a bottom, what does it mean? This P08 was reworked and barrel replaced? Is this possible o tell if this period done? For what PSE abbreviation stands?

More photos will be provided if needed.

Note that the barrel has no eagle proof mark.

Thanks for looking!
Alexander

DavidJayUden · 05-12-2014, 05:38 PM

I have no idea what P S E stands for, but it is definitely not the original barrel. If you remove the upper from the lower receiver, there should be a tiny line connecting the upper barrel extension to the barrel on the very bottom. We call it a witness mark and it shows original factory alignment, and I suspect that will not be correct either.
Also, I can't tell from the photos if the trigger, takedown lever and safety lever are all straw colored or blue, and also we need the full serial number and the letter following the number.
Thanks, and welcome aboard.
dju

Ida-Alp · 05-12-2014, 07:17 PM

It looks like they were not very careful with the vise -- are there marks on both sides??

alanint · 05-12-2014, 08:36 PM

There are also vice "bite marks" on the upper receiver around the serial number.

photo-war · 05-12-2014, 11:59 PM

Thanks to all for comments. The witness mark appears to be destoyed on a barrel, and I guess that the barrel was replaced. Small parts are not strawed but blued.

But note that this is not a single PSE barrel Luger, it has a brother! I have found this thread with description of the same mark:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=4633

The serial number with a letter photo is here ...

John Sabato · 05-13-2014, 09:15 AM

P S E was probably the importer's marking, or possibly the manufacturer of the barrel. Not an original barrel...

zinfull · 05-13-2014, 02:33 PM

I have a barrel also with those letters but in a different sequence. Mine is a VOPO import 1918.

Mike Z · 05-13-2014, 02:36 PM

Straw small parts ended in the q block. t block should be blue small parts.

photo-war · 05-13-2014, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zinfull

I have a barrel also with those letters but in a different sequence. Mine is a VOPO import 1918.

The VOPO import sounds interesting but there is no any VOPO marks on mine (from my point of view at least). Another point - the barrel has no any evidence of acceptance stamp or serial number.

What was a reason for VOPO to remove the barrel from a gun? It's interesting but barrel's end shows much wear with bluening peeled off.

Nomadr · 05-13-2014, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Z

Straw small parts ended in the q block. t block should be blue small parts.

There were strawed parts reported into the early "t" block.

What is interesting is it looks to not have the Mauser hump? Or are my eyes just tired?

Bob

alanint · 05-14-2014, 05:38 AM

Hard to tell from the photo, but it sure looks like there is no hump present.

Mike Z · 05-14-2014, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomadr

There were strawed parts reported into the early "t" block.

What is interesting is it looks to not have the Mauser hump? Or are my eyes just tired?

Bob

My memory failed me. you're correct

John Sabato · 05-14-2014, 10:15 AM

Perhaps one of the Mauser historians can tell us when the "Mauser Hump" was first implemented. Unfortunately, I don't recall which year it was. It may have been in 1937 when they made the transition from strawed small parts to blued. I don't doubt that the lower half is Mauser production, but the lack of the hump on this example is a mystery to my old mind.

Frank Manders! Do you have your ears on?

Sergio Natali · 05-14-2014, 10:51 AM

For what I know there is a bit of a confusion among Mauser Lugers "with" the hump and others "without" it. I might be wrong but there is not a precise date when they started to remove the thickened back frame to make the so called hump.
For instance I've got a "K" one wihout hump, while another one dated 1938 has go it.
IMHO

Lugerdoc · 05-14-2014, 11:30 AM

I would guess that the PSE marking is the initials of the barrel installer. Too sloppy to be a VOPO barrel change. Why anyone would want to claim this work, is beyond me. TH

photo-war · 05-15-2014, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

Hard to tell from the photo, but it sure looks like there is no hump present.

Hello alanint! MAny thank for the input, I took abother photo and from my point of view the hump is here. Please take a look.

sheepherder · 05-15-2014, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photo-war

Hello alanint! MAny thank for the input, I took abother photo and from my point of view the hump is here. Please take a look.

Yup, that's a hump. Better pic than the one in the FAQ...

John Sabato · 05-15-2014, 10:05 AM

Input from Frank Manders to me via PM:

The Mauser Hump occurred at about 5800s in 1937. After which all Military Mausers had the hump.

But, before that, they experimented with the hump in 1934 (K-Date). The early Lugers up to S/N 2500 mostly were humped, then mostly not humped to S/N 5500, then mostly humped until the end of 1934 production.

photo-war · 05-20-2014, 09:44 AM

PSE marking mistery has been resolved. I had a talk with a vendor from whom this gun was offered to me- he has more those PSE marked re-barelled P08's and I examined them all. All guns are re-barelled and have this mark. He told he purchased this lot from Norway, all guns he has seen with PSE marks before were coming from there only. Thus I guess this code is Norwegian acceptance/proof/gunsmith mark.

Hope this hepls! Many thanks to all for great help provided!

Another one PSE marked Luger from the him.

photo-war · 05-20-2014, 09:51 AM

and another one. Bought from Norway, PSE marked and re-barreled.

05-12-2014, 03:53 PM	#1
photo-war User Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 35 Thanks: 24 Thanked 10 Times in 4 Posts	Luger S/42 1937 with PSE marked barrel Dear forum members! I was advised to ask here concerning the Luger I have. The barrel of this gun has a marking – PSE on a bottom, what does it mean? This P08 was reworked and barrel replaced? Is this possible o tell if this period done? For what PSE abbreviation stands? More photos will be provided if needed. Note that the barrel has no eagle proof mark. Thanks for looking! Alexander Last edited by photo-war; 05-12-2014 at 11:31 PM.

05-12-2014, 11:59 PM	#5
photo-war User Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 35 Thanks: 24 Thanked 10 Times in 4 Posts	Thanks to all for comments. The witness mark appears to be destoyed on a barrel, and I guess that the barrel was replaced. Small parts are not strawed but blued. But note that this is not a single PSE barrel Luger, it has a brother! I have found this thread with description of the same mark: http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=4633 The serial number with a letter photo is here ... Last edited by photo-war; 05-13-2014 at 02:11 AM.

05-13-2014, 09:15 AM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	P S E was probably the importer's marking, or possibly the manufacturer of the barrel. Not an original barrel... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-14-2014, 10:15 AM	#13
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Perhaps one of the Mauser historians can tell us when the "Mauser Hump" was first implemented. Unfortunately, I don't recall which year it was. It may have been in 1937 when they made the transition from strawed small parts to blued. I don't doubt that the lower half is Mauser production, but the lack of the hump on this example is a mystery to my old mind. Frank Manders! Do you have your ears on? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-14-2014, 10:51 AM	#14
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	For what I know there is a bit of a confusion among Mauser Lugers "with" the hump and others "without" it. I might be wrong but there is not a precise date when they started to remove the thickened back frame to make the so called hump. For instance I've got a "K" one wihout hump, while another one dated 1938 has go it. IMHO __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

05-12-2014, 05:38 PM	#2
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I have no idea what P S E stands for, but it is definitely not the original barrel. If you remove the upper from the lower receiver, there should be a tiny line connecting the upper barrel extension to the barrel on the very bottom. We call it a witness mark and it shows original factory alignment, and I suspect that will not be correct either. Also, I can't tell from the photos if the trigger, takedown lever and safety lever are all straw colored or blue, and also we need the full serial number and the letter following the number. Thanks, and welcome aboard. dju

05-12-2014, 07:17 PM	#3
Ida-Alp Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Nampa ID Posts: 116 Thanks: 81 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	It looks like they were not very careful with the vise -- are there marks on both sides??

05-12-2014, 08:36 PM	#4
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	There are also vice "bite marks" on the upper receiver around the serial number.

05-13-2014, 02:33 PM	#7
zinfull Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sonoma County CA Posts: 240 Thanks: 4 Thanked 32 Times in 15 Posts	I have a barrel also with those letters but in a different sequence. Mine is a VOPO import 1918.

05-13-2014, 02:36 PM	#8
Mike Z User Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 180 Thanks: 51 Thanked 79 Times in 39 Posts	Straw small parts ended in the q block. t block should be blue small parts.

05-14-2014, 05:38 AM	#11
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Hard to tell from the photo, but it sure looks like there is no hump present.

05-14-2014, 11:30 AM	#15
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	I would guess that the PSE marking is the initials of the barrel installer. Too sloppy to be a VOPO barrel change. Why anyone would want to claim this work, is beyond me. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

05-15-2014, 10:05 AM	#18
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Input from Frank Manders to me via PM: The Mauser Hump occurred at about 5800s in 1937. After which all Military Mausers had the hump. But, before that, they experimented with the hump in 1934 (K-Date). The early Lugers up to S/N 2500 mostly were humped, then mostly not humped to S/N 5500, then mostly humped until the end of 1934 production. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-20-2014, 09:44 AM	#19
photo-war User Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 35 Thanks: 24 Thanked 10 Times in 4 Posts	PSE marking mistery has been resolved. I had a talk with a vendor from whom this gun was offered to me- he has more those PSE marked re-barelled P08's and I examined them all. All guns are re-barelled and have this mark. He told he purchased this lot from Norway, all guns he has seen with PSE marks before were coming from there only. Thus I guess this code is Norwegian acceptance/proof/gunsmith mark. Hope this hepls! Many thanks to all for great help provided! Another one PSE marked Luger from the him. Attached Thumbnails

05-20-2014, 09:51 AM	#20
photo-war User Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 35 Thanks: 24 Thanked 10 Times in 4 Posts	and another one. Bought from Norway, PSE marked and re-barreled. Attached Thumbnails