Colt experts? Early 1911?

RoyalTermite · 01-13-2014, 10:19 AM

I have been offered a Colt 1911. The sights and grips have been changed out. Overall it looks like a nice pistol.

He is asking $600. What do you think? Have not seen in person yet.

http://s209.photobucket.com/user/roy...ry/Colt%201911

RoyalTermite · 01-13-2014, 10:25 AM

Sergio Natali · 01-13-2014, 11:11 AM

It depends on what you are going to buy it for.
For what I can see it is a nice gun, the slide belonged to a 1911 while the frame it's newer and belonged to a 1911A1 (should be a Remington Rand made in 1944). The front sight has been changed as well as the rear sight. The slide stop notch looks a bit worn out.
As a shooter you should have it properly checked by a professional firearm as I would be a bit careful before using modern loads in an old gun.

Anyway congratulations, enjoy your 1911, and shoot safe!

Sergio

Edward Tinker · 01-13-2014, 11:17 AM

it is a shooter not a collector, due to the sights being changed and the finish looks weird.

but $600 is a decent buy for a WW1 shooter - keeping in mind it is close to 100 years old.

guns3545 · 01-13-2014, 11:41 AM

Joe,

Well you really have a mix-master here.

As Sergio pointed out, you have an early Model 1911 Colt slide and a Model 1911A1 Remington Rand frame.

Additionally, it appears the gun has been tricked out for Bulleye shooting. The sights, the trigger shoe and I'll bet a Bartow or other competition barrel. You should check. A competition barrel costs a few dollars.

The slide was originally blued (looked buffed) and the frame Parkerized and that explains the unusual appearance.

And it may be a good shooter but, the slide is an early vintage Model 1911 which are prone to failure. They were not spot hardened as the later Model 1911A1s were. And as Sergio pointed out, the slide stop area is already worn because of the softer metal.

It clearly has no collector value but may be a nice shooter that could collapse at any time.

Equally, especially if the barrel is a competition type, the parts may be worth more than $600. What are the markings on the barrel? It looks bright and not blued in the ejection port area.

Your choice.

John

rhuff · 01-13-2014, 04:52 PM

You have been given expert information on this 1911/1911A1 combo above. It is a mixmaster with a "soft" 1911 slide. IF I were planning on shooting this firearm a fair amount, I would strongly suggest that you handload "soft" loaded rounds to try and keep the slide from cracking. IF it does not currently have a cracked slide(and it may have), it is most likely because it was fired with low velocity target rounds. The 1911A1 corrected this problem with hardening the slide in the venerable areas.

gunbugs · 01-13-2014, 05:59 PM

I would buy it with the intent of getting a Remington Rand slide and correct barrel, and correcting any odd parts in the frame. Resurrecting it, as it were. Rem Rand parts are not hard to find, and not tremendously expensive. I bought an unaltered frame last year that had a 22 conversion on it, (Ceiner), and rounded up a slide and barrel, and a correct hammer and mainspring housing, all including the frame for about 600.

Olle · 01-13-2014, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunbugs

I would buy it with the intent of getting a Remington Rand slide and correct barrel, and correcting any odd parts in the frame. Resurrecting it, as it were. Rem Rand parts are not hard to find, and not tremendously expensive. I bought an unaltered frame last year that had a 22 conversion on it, (Ceiner), and rounded up a slide and barrel, and a correct hammer and mainspring housing, all including the frame for about 600.

That's what I'd do as well. Looking at what people pay for the early Colt slides, there might even be money left over when you're done with it.

ithacaartist · 01-13-2014, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunbugs

... had a 22 conversion on it, (Ceiner)...

I'd be interested in the conversion kit, if it is an orphan now. I refuse to pay as much for a dedicated 1911/22 as a .45ACP, or almost that much for a kit by Colt or another big-time maker. The Ciener kits run about a buck and a half new, according to their site (on "sale"). If there is an economy class gateway to shooting .22lr in a 1911 frame, I'm doing my best to find it.

gunbugs · 01-13-2014, 09:24 PM

I ditched the kit for 200 at a local gunshow. I had a nice Colt kit already.

sheepherder · 01-13-2014, 11:10 PM

I suppose $600 for this depends on what you want it for...Sights make it kinda cumbersome for a carry gun; if you're buying as a decent plinker/paper puncher, then be aware that you can still find a Colt Series 70 Gold Cup .45 unaltered for $100 more...Like I did...

I'd rather have the Colt GC...But YMMV...

Sergio Natali · 01-14-2014, 03:20 AM

Personally I would prefer an " all original" WWII warhorse still in decent conditions.
Probably it will never be so accurate as a Wilson Combat 1911, still the fact of "using" a piece of history (although not that scarce) at the range, would give me an immense satisfaction.

IMHO

JTD · 01-14-2014, 07:42 AM

Series 70 gold cup for 700 in nice shape is about as realistic as finding a nice matched luger for 300. It happens, but...... A few 1911 "parts guns" with target sights, other enhancements, were released thru the DCM in the past for compitition shooting. If in good shape, 600 is very realistic, for the one posted above, especially if it has a NM barrel, and bushing, along with the target sights, trigger. Just my opinion, John

Sergio Natali · 01-14-2014, 01:36 PM

A Series 70 Colt Gold Cup, second hand but still in a very good shape with the original box, here in Italy would cost the equivalent of about USD 1780.00

Recently I've found a beautiful Government made in 1963 (one of the 2000 made in that year) for the equivalent of almost 3000.00 USD

So they are not that cheap ... unfortunately

marshombre · 01-17-2014, 07:27 PM

So 1911 Colts are prone to failure? BS. I have two 1918 Black Armys, one that I shoot almost every time I go to the range. Purchased my shooter for the princely sum of $75 about 30 years ago. The pistol had light surface rust, a mainspring an inch too short, and the front sight took a hike the first time I shot it. No problem, installed new springs, combat sights, and eventually (20 years later) parkerized it as there was no original finish left. Over the years I have shot hundreds of 185 or 200 gn. SWC along with 230 gn. hardball. The other 1911 is far too nice too shoot. The pistol is easily 85% with original grips, sharp features, and no pitting. The young man that owned it wanted to buy a 9mm and sold it for $260. Sometimes I get lucky. MR

01-13-2014, 10:19 AM	#1
RoyalTermite User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Kennett Square. PA Posts: 63 Thanks: 39 Thanked 56 Times in 19 Posts	Colt experts? Early 1911? I have been offered a Colt 1911. The sights and grips have been changed out. Overall it looks like a nice pistol. He is asking $600. What do you think? Have not seen in person yet. http://s209.photobucket.com/user/roy...ry/Colt%201911

01-13-2014, 11:11 AM	#3
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	It depends on what you are going to buy it for. For what I can see it is a nice gun, the slide belonged to a 1911 while the frame it's newer and belonged to a 1911A1 (should be a Remington Rand made in 1944). The front sight has been changed as well as the rear sight. The slide stop notch looks a bit worn out. As a shooter you should have it properly checked by a professional firearm as I would be a bit careful before using modern loads in an old gun. Anyway congratulations, enjoy your 1911, and shoot safe! Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

01-13-2014, 11:17 AM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,924 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,518 Times in 2,087 Posts	it is a shooter not a collector, due to the sights being changed and the finish looks weird. but $600 is a decent buy for a WW1 shooter - keeping in mind it is close to 100 years old. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-13-2014, 05:59 PM	#7
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 650 Thanks: 354 Thanked 1,168 Times in 388 Posts	I would buy it with the intent of getting a Remington Rand slide and correct barrel, and correcting any odd parts in the frame. Resurrecting it, as it were. Rem Rand parts are not hard to find, and not tremendously expensive. I bought an unaltered frame last year that had a 22 conversion on it, (Ceiner), and rounded up a slide and barrel, and a correct hammer and mainspring housing, all including the frame for about 600. Attached Thumbnails

01-13-2014, 11:10 PM	#11
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,441 Times in 2,329 Posts	I suppose $600 for this depends on what you want it for...Sights make it kinda cumbersome for a carry gun; if you're buying as a decent plinker/paper puncher, then be aware that you can still find a Colt Series 70 Gold Cup .45 unaltered for $100 more...Like I did... I'd rather have the Colt GC...But YMMV... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

01-13-2014, 10:25 AM	#2
RoyalTermite User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Kennett Square. PA Posts: 63 Thanks: 39 Thanked 56 Times in 19 Posts

01-13-2014, 11:41 AM	#5
guns3545 Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 437 Thanks: 653 Thanked 492 Times in 218 Posts	Joe, Well you really have a mix-master here. As Sergio pointed out, you have an early Model 1911 Colt slide and a Model 1911A1 Remington Rand frame. Additionally, it appears the gun has been tricked out for Bulleye shooting. The sights, the trigger shoe and I'll bet a Bartow or other competition barrel. You should check. A competition barrel costs a few dollars. The slide was originally blued (looked buffed) and the frame Parkerized and that explains the unusual appearance. And it may be a good shooter but, the slide is an early vintage Model 1911 which are prone to failure. They were not spot hardened as the later Model 1911A1s were. And as Sergio pointed out, the slide stop area is already worn because of the softer metal. It clearly has no collector value but may be a nice shooter that could collapse at any time. Equally, especially if the barrel is a competition type, the parts may be worth more than $600. What are the markings on the barrel? It looks bright and not blued in the ejection port area. Your choice. John

01-13-2014, 04:52 PM	#6
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,287 Thanks: 2,702 Thanked 971 Times in 716 Posts	You have been given expert information on this 1911/1911A1 combo above. It is a mixmaster with a "soft" 1911 slide. IF I were planning on shooting this firearm a fair amount, I would strongly suggest that you handload "soft" loaded rounds to try and keep the slide from cracking. IF it does not currently have a cracked slide(and it may have), it is most likely because it was fired with low velocity target rounds. The 1911A1 corrected this problem with hardening the slide in the venerable areas.

01-13-2014, 09:24 PM	#10
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 650 Thanks: 354 Thanked 1,168 Times in 388 Posts	I ditched the kit for 200 at a local gunshow. I had a nice Colt kit already.

01-14-2014, 03:20 AM	#12
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Personally I would prefer an " all original" WWII warhorse still in decent conditions. Probably it will never be so accurate as a Wilson Combat 1911, still the fact of "using" a piece of history (although not that scarce) at the range, would give me an immense satisfaction. IMHO __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list. Last edited by Sergio Natali; 01-14-2014 at 06:22 AM.

01-14-2014, 07:42 AM	#13
JTD User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: PA Posts: 425 Thanks: 217 Thanked 408 Times in 149 Posts	Series 70 gold cup for 700 in nice shape is about as realistic as finding a nice matched luger for 300. It happens, but...... A few 1911 "parts guns" with target sights, other enhancements, were released thru the DCM in the past for compitition shooting. If in good shape, 600 is very realistic, for the one posted above, especially if it has a NM barrel, and bushing, along with the target sights, trigger. Just my opinion, John Last edited by JTD; 01-14-2014 at 06:16 PM. Reason: clarify 600 "for one posted above"

01-14-2014, 01:36 PM	#14
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	A Series 70 Colt Gold Cup, second hand but still in a very good shape with the original box, here in Italy would cost the equivalent of about USD 1780.00 Recently I've found a beautiful Government made in 1963 (one of the 2000 made in that year) for the equivalent of almost 3000.00 USD So they are not that cheap ... unfortunately __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

01-17-2014, 07:27 PM	#15
marshombre User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: W Central FL Posts: 98 Thanks: 12 Thanked 20 Times in 11 Posts	So 1911 Colts are prone to failure? BS. I have two 1918 Black Armys, one that I shoot almost every time I go to the range. Purchased my shooter for the princely sum of $75 about 30 years ago. The pistol had light surface rust, a mainspring an inch too short, and the front sight took a hike the first time I shot it. No problem, installed new springs, combat sights, and eventually (20 years later) parkerized it as there was no original finish left. Over the years I have shot hundreds of 185 or 200 gn. SWC along with 230 gn. hardball. The other 1911 is far too nice too shoot. The pistol is easily 85% with original grips, sharp features, and no pitting. The young man that owned it wanted to buy a 9mm and sold it for $260. Sometimes I get lucky. MR __________________ Tempus edax rerum