Opinions Please

Arizona Slim · 09-25-2013, 09:49 AM

Below is a link to an Artillery that I am interested in bidding on but have reservations as to it's originality, It has no serial number or proof marks on the barrel or other places that I would think should have them, and maybe just a little "too" pristine for a 90 year old pistol. What do you guys think?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=367065993

alanint · 09-25-2013, 09:54 AM

She looks legit to me. As a commercial pistol, it would not have seen any action and it is not unusual to see commercial pistols turn up in pristine condition. This one just happens to be a rarer Artillery.

The edges all look right, the finish looks good and there are no obvious signs of abuse, dings, scratches, etc. or any signs of restoration.

pors12 · 09-25-2013, 10:19 AM

Hard to believe , great condition for a
luger from this Age...

John Sabato · 09-25-2013, 10:26 AM

I don't know who the seller is, but he sure knows how to take quality photographs... NICE Artillery Model.

Arizona Slim · 09-25-2013, 10:29 AM

Thanks Doug, I have been wanting to add a Commercial Artillery to my collection for awhile now and this one looked pretty good. I've been holding out for a decent looking Persian but they are scarce as are the 1914 DWM Artillery's so maybe I will go ahead and bite the bullet on this one.

Lon

Norme · 09-25-2013, 10:33 AM

Hi Lonnie, I'm not comfortable with this one. I've never handled a "Commercial Artillery", but I would expect one to have a numbered barrel and commercial proofs. Also, the toggle retaining pin appears to be blued over, although this may just be the photo.
Regards, Norm

Arizona Slim · 09-25-2013, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norme

Hi Lonnie, I'm not comfortable with this one. I've never handled a "Commercial Artillery", but I would expect one to have a numbered barrel and commercial proofs. Also, the toggle retaining pin appears to be blued over, although this may just be the photo.
Regards, Norm

Thanks Norm, that was my concern also. I didn't know if it was normal to not have serial numbers and proofs on the barrels, I only have one other Commercial and it does have the SN and proof on the barrel but if I'm not mistaken I think I read somewhere that some commercials were put together with left over parts and not stamped, does this sound correct?

Lon

rhuff · 09-25-2013, 03:42 PM

It could just be my eyes(OLD!), but I am seeing #59 on the side plate and take down lever, yet seeing #39 on the frame. I am the first to admit that I am a novice on Artys, so please excuse me if I have spoken out of line here.

Arizona Slim · 09-25-2013, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhuff

It could just be my eyes(OLD!), but I am seeing #59 on the side plate and take down lever, yet seeing #39 on the frame. I am the first to admit that I am a novice on Artys, so please excuse me if I have spoken out of line here.

Hi Richard, at first glance it does look that way but after enlarging the photos I believe the numbers are correct and matching to the gun. It appears that the halo on the number on the frame gives the appearance of a different number, thank you for comment, it caused me to go back and take a second look.

Lon

George Anderson · 09-25-2013, 06:22 PM

A 1920s commercial artillery if put together at plant will have a properly numbered barrel.

lugerholsterrepair · 09-25-2013, 07:33 PM

Lon, Take a look at the flange on this barrel. It looks to be at least twice as thick as normal? Also I would want to closely inspect the rear sight for any numbers. On a Military the rear sight is numbered in many places..
While this is likely more rare than many Military pistols..it holds less interest among MOST, not all collectors.
The barrel could be a Pacific Arms replacement..Without a number I am not fond of it at the asking price.
My advice is to hold onto your hard earned cash until you find the pistol that sings to you...

alanint · 09-25-2013, 07:45 PM

After hearing the learned opinions here, I would have to agree.

Arizona Slim · 09-25-2013, 09:56 PM

Thanks for all help guys, after reading all your opinions I think it would be the wise thing to do and hold off until one comes along that I fill more comfortable with. Although it could very well be legit, should the need ever arise to be in the position that I would have to sell it it probably would be hard to convince someone that it was legit.

Lon

Ben M. · 09-25-2013, 11:22 PM

i would ask the seller to send a photo of the notch on the top-front of the receiver to see if the notch is there and if it is the shape that dwm put on the gun. maybe this was just a 4 inch gun someone made into a long one?

i looked at the fotos with the small parts and i think i see 59's and not 39's also.

09-25-2013, 09:49 AM	#1
Arizona Slim Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 706 Thanks: 1,026 Thanked 409 Times in 225 Posts	Opinions Please Below is a link to an Artillery that I am interested in bidding on but have reservations as to it's originality, It has no serial number or proof marks on the barrel or other places that I would think should have them, and maybe just a little "too" pristine for a 90 year old pistol. What do you guys think? http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=367065993

09-25-2013, 09:54 AM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	She looks legit to me. As a commercial pistol, it would not have seen any action and it is not unusual to see commercial pistols turn up in pristine condition. This one just happens to be a rarer Artillery. The edges all look right, the finish looks good and there are no obvious signs of abuse, dings, scratches, etc. or any signs of restoration. Last edited by alanint; 09-25-2013 at 11:40 AM.

09-25-2013, 10:26 AM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	I don't know who the seller is, but he sure knows how to take quality photographs... NICE Artillery Model. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-25-2013, 07:33 PM	#11
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Lon, Take a look at the flange on this barrel. It looks to be at least twice as thick as normal? Also I would want to closely inspect the rear sight for any numbers. On a Military the rear sight is numbered in many places.. While this is likely more rare than many Military pistols..it holds less interest among MOST, not all collectors. The barrel could be a Pacific Arms replacement..Without a number I am not fond of it at the asking price. My advice is to hold onto your hard earned cash until you find the pistol that sings to you... __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-25-2013, 10:19 AM	#3
pors12 User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Austria Posts: 115 Thanks: 24 Thanked 59 Times in 21 Posts	Hard to believe , great condition for a luger from this Age...

09-25-2013, 10:29 AM	#5
Arizona Slim Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 706 Thanks: 1,026 Thanked 409 Times in 225 Posts	Thanks Doug, I have been wanting to add a Commercial Artillery to my collection for awhile now and this one looked pretty good. I've been holding out for a decent looking Persian but they are scarce as are the 1914 DWM Artillery's so maybe I will go ahead and bite the bullet on this one. Lon

09-25-2013, 10:33 AM	#6
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Lonnie, I'm not comfortable with this one. I've never handled a "Commercial Artillery", but I would expect one to have a numbered barrel and commercial proofs. Also, the toggle retaining pin appears to be blued over, although this may just be the photo. Regards, Norm

09-25-2013, 03:42 PM	#8
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,305 Thanks: 2,735 Thanked 991 Times in 727 Posts	It could just be my eyes(OLD!), but I am seeing #59 on the side plate and take down lever, yet seeing #39 on the frame. I am the first to admit that I am a novice on Artys, so please excuse me if I have spoken out of line here.

09-25-2013, 06:22 PM	#10
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	A 1920s commercial artillery if put together at plant will have a properly numbered barrel.

09-25-2013, 07:45 PM	#12
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	After hearing the learned opinions here, I would have to agree.

09-25-2013, 09:56 PM	#13
Arizona Slim Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 706 Thanks: 1,026 Thanked 409 Times in 225 Posts	Thanks for all help guys, after reading all your opinions I think it would be the wise thing to do and hold off until one comes along that I fill more comfortable with. Although it could very well be legit, should the need ever arise to be in the position that I would have to sell it it probably would be hard to convince someone that it was legit. Lon

09-25-2013, 11:22 PM	#14
Ben M. User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Retired to Naples, FL. Posts: 497 Thanks: 96 Thanked 144 Times in 89 Posts	i would ask the seller to send a photo of the notch on the top-front of the receiver to see if the notch is there and if it is the shape that dwm put on the gun. maybe this was just a 4 inch gun someone made into a long one? i looked at the fotos with the small parts and i think i see 59's and not 39's also.