Magazine Fit Question

[Dwight Gruber]

Does anybody have any idea about how much vertical play (slop?) there whould be when the magazine is inserted into a Luger? Should there be any? How does one go about adjusting it?


I have three guns, and four magazines. Each gun has a different amount of vertical magazine play, and different reliability in chambering rounds. My 1900 A.E. will usually chamber, my S/42 "G" is really reliable, but my 1920 Commercial (the one with the most play) almost never chambers--its like the magazine doesn't ride high enough for the breechblock to engage a shell. The magazine catch in this gun was worn (and filed, I think) so I replaced it, but the problem persists. Right now it is a -fiendishly- accurate .30 single-shot!


In addition, I have come to question Luger magazine interchangability. The old-style magazine (the only one I am sure is an original) only fits in the 1900, it jams in the other two guns when it goes higher than the grip cut-out. Two of the other magazines jam in the same place in the 1900 (very counter-intuitive, that). One of the other magazines isn't interchangable between the other two guns (and one doesn't feed for beans). The only magazine I have which fits all three guns is a Mec-Gar, made in Italy, which I picked up at a gun show in January (needless to say, I'm in the market for more of those!)


I really hope someone has an answer about the vertical slop thing--I'd really like to be able to shoot the .30 Commercial!


--Dwight

[G.T.]

Hi Dwight! I don't have any hard and fast rules, but....It seems that 1900's have very tight tolerances, and most likely 1900 mag's were made to fit, exactly!... As far as I know, this is only a 1900 quirk... (BTW,it is a good way to tell if the mag. is original to the gun!)...I think, the vertical tolerance is built into the mags to facilitate loading a full mag., including dirt and grim, under less then idea conditions!! I have repaired mags to fit perfectly, only to encounter a multitude of malfunctions!! The tolerances built in, are there for a reason...whatever that may be? Also, luger mags have a tendency to deform in the mag catch area, making sloppy, sloppier! Perhaps some of the other members have a different slant on this problem! till...later...G.T.

[Kyrie]

Hi Dwight,


There is a school of thought that holds the reason most Luger have mismatched magazines is when each batch of Lugers were delivered to a German armory they intentionally mixed up the magazines before test firing them to be sure all the magazines were in fact interchangeable. Quien sabe?


Regarding play in magazines, how high the magazine rides in the magazine well, and how much play exists, depends on the position and wear on the hole in the magazine body and the condition of the magazine catch.


Correcting vertical magazine play is a two step process.


First remove and examine the magazine catch for wear. If it is worn, either replace it with a new magazine catch or build up the worn area with weld and reshape it.


Next examine each magazine for play. If there is vertical play, then the magazine catch hole in the magazine body is too low (manufacturing variation or wear). Measure the length (top to bottom) of the magazine catch hole, and then add one layer of scotch tape, insert the magazine and check for play, add another layer of tape, and so on until there is no play. Measure again. The difference between the first measurement and the second is how much you need to build close up the magazine catch hole by welding or silver soldering.


Before making any permanent changes to the magazine - check magazine function! See how it feeds, while firing, with only the tape closing up that magazine catch hole. If you get failures to feed, you may have to close up the magazine catch hole on the top and bottom, alternately, to get the top of the magazine positioned exactly right for the breech block to reliably pick up every cartridge from the magazine.


Hope this helps!


Best regards,


Kyrie

Moderator - Cruffler_Forum on Yahoo Groups

"The flame free C&R Forum."

Dwight, GT & Kyrie have given some good advise. If your new Mec-Gar mag is not allowing your 7.65mm commerical to operate properly, you probably have another problem, other than the mag. It could be strength of recoil spring vs the stength of the ammo, bad chamber or feed ramp, or even the coupling link may be out of spec. and your barreled receiver is not coming back far enough on recoil. If you don't have an experienced Lugersmith in your area, I can check it out if you wish. Tom h.

I'm dealing with a similar problem. My 1918 Erfurt jumps off the wall and disassembles itself when I walk in the room because of the time I've spent on it. Everyone here said the problem is the magazine and since I've done everything else it must be. The magazine simply does not sit up at the exact angle to feed. I have a triple K ordered and if that doesn't fix it I'll keep on trying. Mine has a mismatched bolt and there was drag on the rails and between the bolt link pin assy and the toggle. Lapping compound worked it out and its very smooth now but still won't feed every time. (three types of ammo used, no difference.) How do you check the barreled receiver return?


Roadkill

I have 4 or 5 different magazines and they like certain guns and not other guns. I attributed it to different ages of the Lugers?


Roadkill (Grady, in the army did you fire the .45 much? I carried one for years and the magazines would work better with some guns and not others. At least we all swore that this was true and I eventually bought civilian (new) magazines for duty.


Ed

Nope, didn't. But the ones I've had since have 99% always worked as have BHPs, PPs, Berettas, Sigs, Rugers, ect.Only one time with a 1911A1 Ithaca did I have a magazine out of several that would not feed. I'm not counting a few .22 semis that were a constant problem, rimmed casings have to be stacked right to feed sometimes. Out of curiosity, do any of ya'll have matched guns and magazines that will not shoot?


Roadkill

[BILL]

The more Luger magazines you acquire the more you will see how relative everything is. It has been my experience that Luger mags (yeah, some folks call em clips) can be rated in the 1 to 5 category of fit and function. Five good magazines will fit differently in the same Luger. The ones that fit the best (no slop) aren't always the ones that function the best and the converse also holds true. If you are a collector only you would probably want a mag that fits tightly up into the well and has none of the metal tube showing. If you are more into shooting then that becomes less important. One thing to remember though, there are a limited number of original Luger magazines and a lot of repros being manufactured. Since the magazines take a beating and probably are the most easily worn part, it makes good sense to find a good repro for the range or field. I have a sample of the triple K magazine and, while it functions, it is no where near the quality of the Mec-Gar. The best of both worlds? A Mec-Gar magazine with one of GTs beautiful mag bottoms installed!!

Bill, I'm just trying to get the thing to shoot in a somewhat consistent manner. I'll go for quality and asthetics at a later time. Thanks for the info. Are these magazines (a clip fits in a M1 Garand or holds rifle bullets together for speed loading) listed in the links?


Thanks Roadkill