Opinions needed on Luger Dates

[hansfischer007]

Hey Guys...Im looking ....over a period of time...to pick up couple more Lugers.....my long term goal is to have one for every year in WW1.......1914..1915..etc...however reading on a Dealers site that sold Lugers...he made the comment that "after 1916 the quality of the Lugers went down quite a bit"....especially the 1918 Lugers....this concerns me as I'm working on a deal right now for a 1918 DWM and supposedly in good condition.....anyway....just whats anyones opinion about Quality..etc....going down after 1916....as Always I appreciate anyone taking the time to answer....Regards...Hans Fischer

[alanint]

Although Erfurts have always been known to be "rougher" than DWMs, I think the fairest observation is that the "cosmetics" of the pistols suffered only slightly over the period mentioned. I don't consider that there was a decline in the "quality" of the guns, only in the thoroughness of the final finishing stages, i.e. more tool marks, etc.

[Edward Tinker]

I have seen 1917 and 1918 DWM or Erfurts that were very nice, I don't go with the '1918's are always poorer quality.

[lugerholsterrepair]

I don't go with the '1918's are always poorer quality.

Especially DWM pistols. Their quality was pretty good right up to the end of the war, Erfurts didn't fare as well but all are interesting.

[FNorm]

I have a 1918 DWM that's rougher in non-critical areas than early DWMs. For example, the barrel band, etc. were not polished out as well.

FN

[siegersallee]

Hi Hans,

I am also collecting the 1913 - 1918 Lugers. For now, I am focusing on Erfurts.

I have seen a handful of 1917-18 Erfurts. I agree with the view that in later years of the war the quality of the working parts did not suffer, only the finish and maybe a slackness with respect to the inspection marks for which Erfurts are famous.

I have noticed that, for example, the other side of the magazine catch, that is the strawed peice on the right-hand side, is usually not marked as it is on the earlier Erfurts (see my post entitled "Would a 1918 Erfurt have a proof..." in the new members forum).

So, if the pistol is otherwise collectible, and you like it, go for it.

Richard

[George Anderson]

I have found that the quality of Erfurt P08s 1911 through 1913 is every bit the equal of DWM P08s of the same years. Erfurt quality of finish begins to lessen in 1914 with 1916 dated Erfurts the worst. 1917 and especially 1918 pistols improve but still are not the equal of the prewar guns.

The suffering of quality can best be understood if one looks at the history of the Erfurt Arsenal. In 1914 with the outbreak of war Erfurt is instructed to concentrate production on the model KAR98 carbine. This would necessitate a reduction in pistol production lines and a spreading out of the most highly skilled workers. By 1916 quality had become such an issue with Erfurt weapon production that the Bavarian Army sent a commission to investigate the problems at the Arsenal. The commission found that the increase in quality issues was due to several factors. First was the loss of younger skilled workers to the draft. Erfurt was also handicapped by mandated fixed wages so that competing privately held manufacturers were hiring away some of Erfurt's older skilled workers. Last the commission determined that the addition of a night shift had thinned out the remaining skilled work force and many positions were being filled by women.

Below are some photos of a 1912 Erfurt which illustrate the high quality of the prewar guns.

[alanint]

Can anybody shed light on why the Erfurt Arsenal was contracted to make Lugers in the first place?
In 1911 World War 1 was three years away and not even concieved of as a possibility. One would imagine that DWM was producing enough pistols to fill the German Army's needs, (as evidenced by the continued production of commercial pistols).
Was the assigning of Erfurt to make the new P08 a political move, in which the German goverment simply wanted their finger in the pie?

[Edward Tinker]

The german gov't wanted a fallback in case of war or other issues, so they said that to make a contract with DWM they were allowed to make lugers at Erfurt; just like the US said to Colt for the 1911, that Springfield would make 1911's.


Ed