Talk to me.....

Keiser77 · 03-16-2012, 02:10 PM

Just want an idea of what I have here. I have no paperwork and nothing else but what is in the pictures. I would like to know what significance (if any) the small engraved emblems mean and how to figure out if it was used/carried by an officer in WW2. I know little to nothing about guns and only recently found out my father has this gun from my grandfather. I appreciate any help that can be given.

Keiser77 · 03-16-2012, 02:12 PM

more pics

Keiser77 · 03-16-2012, 02:14 PM

more..

Keiser77 · 03-16-2012, 02:15 PM

the last

padredan · 03-16-2012, 03:01 PM

Well sir, you have a very nice 1920 dwm, police luger, with looks like one matching mag, nice holster. Allso looks like most of the numbers are matching, very nice rig indeed.. Verry good pictures, Welcome to the forum.

alanint · 03-16-2012, 04:11 PM

Dan is right on. Your toggle train does not match the balance of the pistol. Curiously, your takedown lever matches the toggle train and your magazine has a similar ending pair of digits, so all these parts may have come off the same host pistol in order to create a functioning weapon.

Hugo Borchardt · 03-16-2012, 04:34 PM

I like the proofs on the right side of the receiver, the low block serial number "15" (can't tell which letter is below the serial on front of frame), the 1934 holster, and the matching mag. "SB" unit mark is Weimar police, I think, though I don't see a sear safety.

I bet that gun could tell quite the story.

Thanks for sharing...

Neil Young · 03-16-2012, 04:55 PM

I believe this to be a 1920 DWM Luger manufactured for the police. It is not an all matching piece since the toggle is from a different pistol since it is marked "32". The locking bolt is also marked "32" and the wooden base magazine bears the serial number 2032. The serial number of the remainder of the pistol is 15a (see bottom of the barrel and the front of the receiver) and the "15"mark shows up on several more parts. The aluminum based magazine is matched to the bulk of the pistol in the police fashion with the 15 serial number and the number 2, which indicates No. 2 of up to three magazines issued. The "S.B.12 333." on the front grip strap indicates Schutzpolizei Berlin (Schupo), if I have interpreted Mr. Maus's book correctly. I can't read the mark on the loading tool.

The DWM mark on the center toggle link is the trademark of the manufacturer. The marks on the right side of the receiver are the acceptance and proof marks (E/ArA4 and WaA4).

Neil

Keiser77 · 03-16-2012, 05:40 PM

Thanks for the info. My grandfather fought in every major battle in ww2 and brought this home.

tomaustin · 03-16-2012, 09:26 PM

..

EddieinNC · 03-16-2012, 11:26 PM

With the mis-matched parts, I'd (and I am nowhere near the experts on this forum), I'd offer $800 straight-up. It looks like the presettable shooter which I am looking for. Again, PM me.

-Eddie

lugerholsterrepair · 03-17-2012, 12:09 AM

Eddie, Don't you think you're getting ahead of yourself? The Gentleman came on asking for information about "my father has this gun from my grandfather. " Not I own this pistol and want to sell it!

Your post is inapropriate and off topic. If you have no pertinant information to contribute... please refrain from pestering him and annoying me.

Jerry Burney.. Moderator

Dave Sanders · 03-17-2012, 12:23 AM

So would this be a 9mm or were all post war lugers30 luger cal? Would this most likely have gone into WWII with the police or kept like it was and issued out? Hope these aren't dumb questions, but wondered.
Dave

lugersrkewl · 03-17-2012, 12:54 AM

doesnt the 8.85 on the barrel mean its a 9mm? whereas a 30 would be marked 7.65 or not at all?

padredan · 03-17-2012, 03:28 AM

correct

alanint · 03-17-2012, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Sanders

So would this be a 9mm or were all post war lugers30 luger cal? Would this most likely have gone into WWII with the police or kept like it was and issued out? Hope these aren't dumb questions, but wondered.
Dave

It most probably served in WW2 as a police gun and was in active service until captured or surrendered.

This gun has a lot of history.

Don M · 03-17-2012, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

It most probably served in WW2 as a police gun and was in active service until captured or surrendered.

Actually, the lack of sear and mag safeties indicates the gun was issued to one of the barracked Berlin Schupo Bereitschaften (riot police). Their Lugers were exempted from the order to add the safeties. These units were transferred to the Landespolizei and then to the military in 1934-35. The gun probably saw service in one of the police battalions or the Wehrmacht during WWII.

Dave Sanders · 03-17-2012, 03:38 PM

I couldn't see the markings in the picture, not so good of screen that I have. So, the police type lugers were kept 9mm and the export or weimar lugers were .30 cal? Is there a rule to the caliber?
Dave

lugersrkewl · 03-17-2012, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Sanders

I couldn't see the markings in the picture, not so good of screen that I have. So, the police type lugers were kept 9mm and the export or weimar lugers were .30 cal? Is there a rule to the caliber?
Dave

all lugers started as 7.65 borschadt round. then they were produced as 9 mill for stopping power. then with the treaty after the war ( wwI) germany was limited to the number of weapons that had same caliber that army used so they started producing them in 7.65 again. this gun was reworked in 1920 for the police mebbe they switched from 30 to 9 at that point in time? then when they started rearming in the 30's they just started making 9mms -Im not sure about the police changing caliber I just post when I think Im half right and wait for the experts to correct me. if they dont then I must have got it close

FNorm · 03-17-2012, 07:52 PM

As early as 1919, and during the '20's DWM produced 9mm with 4 inch barrels for the army, navy, and police. The Weimar proofs on this piece indicate new production during those years. ns, a and b.

03-16-2012, 02:10 PM	#1
Keiser77 User Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Talk to me..... Just want an idea of what I have here. I have no paperwork and nothing else but what is in the pictures. I would like to know what significance (if any) the small engraved emblems mean and how to figure out if it was used/carried by an officer in WW2. I know little to nothing about guns and only recently found out my father has this gun from my grandfather. I appreciate any help that can be given. Attached Thumbnails

03-16-2012, 02:12 PM	#2
Keiser77 User Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	more pics Attached Thumbnails

03-16-2012, 02:14 PM	#3
Keiser77 User Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	more.. Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

03-16-2012, 02:15 PM	#4
Keiser77 User Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	the last Attached Thumbnails

03-16-2012, 03:01 PM	#5
padredan User Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: louisiana Now, but from the Rebublic of Texas Posts: 937 Thanks: 429 Thanked 316 Times in 182 Posts	Well sir, you have a very nice 1920 dwm, police luger, with looks like one matching mag, nice holster. Allso looks like most of the numbers are matching, very nice rig indeed.. Verry good pictures, Welcome to the forum. __________________ In this world nothing is free, except the grace of God

03-16-2012, 04:11 PM	#6
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Dan is right on. Your toggle train does not match the balance of the pistol. Curiously, your takedown lever matches the toggle train and your magazine has a similar ending pair of digits, so all these parts may have come off the same host pistol in order to create a functioning weapon.

03-16-2012, 04:34 PM	#7
Hugo Borchardt User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 370 Thanks: 338 Thanked 133 Times in 47 Posts	I like the proofs on the right side of the receiver, the low block serial number "15" (can't tell which letter is below the serial on front of frame), the 1934 holster, and the matching mag. "SB" unit mark is Weimar police, I think, though I don't see a sear safety. I bet that gun could tell quite the story. Thanks for sharing... __________________ My militaria collection is dedicated to the memory of my Grandfather, Marine Gunnery Sergeant Dave Hill, Jr., wounded in action at The Assault of the Second Marine Division on Betio Island, Tarawa Atoll, 20-23 November, 1943. http://www.tarawa1943.com/pages/casualties%20tarawa.htm

03-16-2012, 04:55 PM	#8
Neil Young Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Scottsboro, Alabama Posts: 545 Thanks: 559 Thanked 442 Times in 168 Posts	I believe this to be a 1920 DWM Luger manufactured for the police. It is not an all matching piece since the toggle is from a different pistol since it is marked "32". The locking bolt is also marked "32" and the wooden base magazine bears the serial number 2032. The serial number of the remainder of the pistol is 15a (see bottom of the barrel and the front of the receiver) and the "15"mark shows up on several more parts. The aluminum based magazine is matched to the bulk of the pistol in the police fashion with the 15 serial number and the number 2, which indicates No. 2 of up to three magazines issued. The "S.B.12 333." on the front grip strap indicates Schutzpolizei Berlin (Schupo), if I have interpreted Mr. Maus's book correctly. I can't read the mark on the loading tool. The DWM mark on the center toggle link is the trademark of the manufacturer. The marks on the right side of the receiver are the acceptance and proof marks (E/ArA4 and WaA4). Neil __________________ Neil The hurrier I go the behinder I get. Sometimes it takes me all day to get nothing done.

03-16-2012, 05:40 PM	#9
Keiser77 User Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the info. My grandfather fought in every major battle in ww2 and brought this home.

03-16-2012, 09:26 PM	#10
tomaustin Lifer X5 Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: texas Posts: 708 Thanks: 87 Thanked 522 Times in 201 Posts	what unit(s) did your g-father serve in ?? ..

03-16-2012, 11:26 PM	#11
EddieinNC User Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 10 Thanks: 8 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	With the mis-matched parts, I'd (and I am nowhere near the experts on this forum), I'd offer $800 straight-up. It looks like the presettable shooter which I am looking for. Again, PM me. -Eddie

03-17-2012, 12:09 AM	#12
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,763 Thanks: 4,879 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,429 Posts	Eddie, Don't you think you're getting ahead of yourself? The Gentleman came on asking for information about "my father has this gun from my grandfather. " Not I own this pistol and want to sell it! Your post is inapropriate and off topic. If you have no pertinant information to contribute... please refrain from pestering him and annoying me. Jerry Burney.. Moderator __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-17-2012, 12:23 AM	#13
Dave Sanders User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Hamer, Idaho Posts: 283 Thanks: 26 Thanked 43 Times in 22 Posts	So would this be a 9mm or were all post war lugers30 luger cal? Would this most likely have gone into WWII with the police or kept like it was and issued out? Hope these aren't dumb questions, but wondered. Dave

03-17-2012, 12:54 AM	#14
lugersrkewl Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Ussr Posts: 425 Thanks: 198 Thanked 75 Times in 58 Posts	doesnt the 8.85 on the barrel mean its a 9mm? whereas a 30 would be marked 7.65 or not at all?

03-17-2012, 03:28 AM	#15
padredan User Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: louisiana Now, but from the Rebublic of Texas Posts: 937 Thanks: 429 Thanked 316 Times in 182 Posts	correct __________________ In this world nothing is free, except the grace of God

03-17-2012, 03:38 PM	#18
Dave Sanders User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Hamer, Idaho Posts: 283 Thanks: 26 Thanked 43 Times in 22 Posts	I couldn't see the markings in the picture, not so good of screen that I have. So, the police type lugers were kept 9mm and the export or weimar lugers were .30 cal? Is there a rule to the caliber? Dave

03-17-2012, 07:52 PM	#20
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	As early as 1919, and during the '20's DWM produced 9mm with 4 inch barrels for the army, navy, and police. The Weimar proofs on this piece indicate new production during those years. ns, a and b.