Please help with faux artillery (long) Luger

Milsurp Collector · 02-27-2012, 09:28 PM

I recently bought this pair of Lugers as shooters. The standard one is a 1914 DWM that is matching but has been refinished. The other one is an odd faux long Luger. It is marked Erfurt but there is no date. There are multiple "Germany" stamps so I assume it was imported in the 1920s. The long barrel and sight are completely free of serial numbers. Several parts have been restamped to match. It doesn't have the receiver notch for the rear sight but it does have an artillery toggle that has been renumbered to match.

My question is, is it likely the new barrel was installed in Germany before it was exported, or more likely the barrel was installed in the US?

ithacaartist · 02-28-2012, 02:39 PM

James,

First, welcome to the forum.

This Luger is all over the place. Others on this board have much greater magnitudes of experience and advice, but I'll try to start things off on this Artie.

The Artillery 8" bbl is not accommodated by the receiver, as you noted, which has no notch; so the frame was made before the point at which all Lugers had this notch regardless of what length barrel was applied to them. External serial number marking is military style. But the take-down lever should be numbered on the outside, as well. If a number is found on the bottom edge, it's from a commercial pistol. Also check for numbers under and behind the sight components on the bbl because if its origin was commercial, then they would have been tucked away, like the comm. style take-down lever.

Has anyone else used the term "Heinz Pistol" yet? Assembled from 57 different varieties...
A forum administrator told me last year that any artillery model would be worth at least $1,000 as a shooter; but I think in this case, in order to achieve that, you'd perhaps consider finding a Luger that has a notch and needs a barrel. The bulk of the remainder seems like an Erfurt, which would be proper, numbered military style.

OK I'll step aside and let the Maestros inform you more and better. You could not have come to a better place to have your Luger questions answered.

David Parker

Norme · 02-28-2012, 02:54 PM

Hi James, Welcome to the forum! I wish I had better news, but an Artillery Luger with no stock lug has limited usefulness. I don't know who assembled this piece, but I doubt it was the Germans. Regards, Norm

alanint · 02-28-2012, 03:41 PM

With all the other acumulated issues, I wonder why the maker bothered to try and force match any numbers??

ithacaartist · 02-28-2012, 05:10 PM

Dang! I missed the lack of stock lug. Norm, this would coincide with the lack of notch for the artillery sight, as before 1914?

Excellent point, Doug. Sooomebody had lots of time to accomplish, in this case, less than nothing. One thing you gotta admit, Waffenfabrik USA is never short of imagination!

James, there is another "project gun"--so dubbed by Lugerman--in another post. I'd be tempted to use the bbl as I mused before, and use the Erfurt/Heinz for a Baby .45 GAP conversion. And/or perhaps pass the barrel on and defray conversion price tag with the proceeds.

FNorm · 02-28-2012, 05:35 PM

Agree with all of the above. The proof marks on the receiver rt. side (TSS) would indicate a 1917 or 1918 DWM.

alanint · 02-28-2012, 07:41 PM

Is the frame lug missing or ground off?

Milsurp Collector · 02-28-2012, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

Is the frame lug missing or ground off?

Ground off.

Thanks for the replies so far.

02-27-2012, 09:28 PM	#1
Milsurp Collector User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 3 Posts	Please help with faux artillery (long) Luger I recently bought this pair of Lugers as shooters. The standard one is a 1914 DWM that is matching but has been refinished. The other one is an odd faux long Luger. It is marked Erfurt but there is no date. There are multiple "Germany" stamps so I assume it was imported in the 1920s. The long barrel and sight are completely free of serial numbers. Several parts have been restamped to match. It doesn't have the receiver notch for the rear sight but it does have an artillery toggle that has been renumbered to match. My question is, is it likely the new barrel was installed in Germany before it was exported, or more likely the barrel was installed in the US? Attached Thumbnails

02-28-2012, 02:39 PM	#2
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,288 Thanks: 7,035 Thanked 2,482 Times in 1,323 Posts	James, First, welcome to the forum. This Luger is all over the place. Others on this board have much greater magnitudes of experience and advice, but I'll try to start things off on this Artie. The Artillery 8" bbl is not accommodated by the receiver, as you noted, which has no notch; so the frame was made before the point at which all Lugers had this notch regardless of what length barrel was applied to them. External serial number marking is military style. But the take-down lever should be numbered on the outside, as well. If a number is found on the bottom edge, it's from a commercial pistol. Also check for numbers under and behind the sight components on the bbl because if its origin was commercial, then they would have been tucked away, like the comm. style take-down lever. Has anyone else used the term "Heinz Pistol" yet? Assembled from 57 different varieties... A forum administrator told me last year that any artillery model would be worth at least $1,000 as a shooter; but I think in this case, in order to achieve that, you'd perhaps consider finding a Luger that has a notch and needs a barrel. The bulk of the remainder seems like an Erfurt, which would be proper, numbered military style. OK I'll step aside and let the Maestros inform you more and better. You could not have come to a better place to have your Luger questions answered. David Parker

02-28-2012, 02:54 PM	#3
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,415 Thanks: 225 Thanked 2,594 Times in 931 Posts	Hi James, Welcome to the forum! I wish I had better news, but an Artillery Luger with no stock lug has limited usefulness. I don't know who assembled this piece, but I doubt it was the Germans. Regards, Norm

02-28-2012, 03:41 PM	#4
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	With all the other acumulated issues, I wonder why the maker bothered to try and force match any numbers??

02-28-2012, 05:10 PM	#5
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,288 Thanks: 7,035 Thanked 2,482 Times in 1,323 Posts	Dang! I missed the lack of stock lug. Norm, this would coincide with the lack of notch for the artillery sight, as before 1914? Excellent point, Doug. Sooomebody had lots of time to accomplish, in this case, less than nothing. One thing you gotta admit, Waffenfabrik USA is never short of imagination! James, there is another "project gun"--so dubbed by Lugerman--in another post. I'd be tempted to use the bbl as I mused before, and use the Erfurt/Heinz for a Baby .45 GAP conversion. And/or perhaps pass the barrel on and defray conversion price tag with the proceeds.

02-28-2012, 05:35 PM	#6
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Agree with all of the above. The proof marks on the receiver rt. side (TSS) would indicate a 1917 or 1918 DWM.

02-28-2012, 07:41 PM	#7
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Is the frame lug missing or ground off?