Please Help With Value OF Death's Head 1918 Erfurt Luger

bdome · 10-01-2011, 05:47 PM

Hi All,

I am hoping that someone out there might be able to give me a ball park value of a 1918 dated Erfurt, Death's Head luger. I realize that pictures would be helpful but hope that maybe a ballpark figure might be offered by my description.

I would rate the bore VG condition. Blueing is probably Good condition with considerable wear on the front strap and back strap. I could not dis-assemble pistol but I can see that the take down lever is mis-matched and the back toggle link is devoid of any serial number. The left side grip is chipped under the safety lever. Magazine is mismatched. What intreages me the most though is the holster. It also has a Death's Head stamp on the front and is dated 1917 on the inside. Also on the inside, the GI who liberated the war trophy wrote his name and rank, along with his HQ Division number. Lastly, the pistol comes with 2 extra magazines, one of which has a cracked bottom. None of the magazine serial numbers match that of the pistol.

Any help would be appreciated. Many thanks.

alanint · 10-01-2011, 05:55 PM

Hi Bruce,

Without photos there is no way to even give a ballpark value to your gun. The "Death's Head" is a very controvertial marking and most out there have been faked.

Please try to post photos!

bdome · 10-01-2011, 07:04 PM

Thanks for the reply. I'm unable to add photos as this pistol was at a gun show that I went to today. This guy is a respected, long time luger dealer, so I trust him on the authenticity. He had a price of $1500 on the rig but since I'm a repeat customer, he said he would take $1100. I told him I needed to think about it after finding the mis-matched numbers. Thanks anyway.

alanint · 10-01-2011, 07:45 PM

I think $1,100 is high for what you are describing. A mismatch with extensive wear is a shooter in my book and worth somewhere in the $600-$700. Add another $300, maybe, for the holster and spare mags, (just ballpark since neither have a description).

bdome · 10-01-2011, 08:08 PM

Thank you for the follow up. I realize that photos would have helped but do appreciate your input.

sheepherder · 10-02-2011, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdome

This guy is a respected, long time luger dealer, so I trust him on the authenticity...

The authenticity of a Freikorps Luger??? Wow...

Assuming they are legitimate, where did a Freikorps 'armorer' get the tooling to make the chamber graphic???

bdome · 10-03-2011, 02:29 PM

Not sure I understand what you are getting at.

DavidJayUden · 10-05-2011, 03:22 PM

Ask the dealer to post pictures. If he is legit he won't mind, and will welcome, the scrutiny.
dju

lugerholsterrepair · 10-05-2011, 03:33 PM

What intreages me the most though is the holster. It also has a Death's Head stamp on the front and is dated 1917 on the inside.

Can you describe where the holster DH is? How big? Any other description?

bdome · 10-05-2011, 06:13 PM

The holster was brown in color and showed wear but it was in very nice shape. Stitching was tight and there were no repairs that I noticed. The Death's Head was maybe 1/2'' to 3/4'' tall and stamped into the leather on (I think) the face of the flap. There was another mark stamped or carved into the leather near the DH stamp. It looked like a stialized W. The 1917 date was stamped into the leather on the inside of the holster. As I said earlier, a GI had also written his name on the inside with ink. He wrote his name, rank and assignment in a HQ Division. I always like the additional markings for their historical content.

I wish I had had a camera to take pictures but at the time, I felt the mis-matched numbers on the pistol was a deal breaker for me.

DavidJayUden · 10-08-2011, 07:56 AM

Is this the gun in question:
http://www.gunsamerica.com//96748424...Head.htm?wl=1#

dju

alanint · 10-08-2011, 08:35 AM

Seems like the same Luger although I don't see a chip around the safety lever.

The photos are carefully posed so that there is no way to see if the rear toggle link is marked or the takedown lever mismatched. No details of the death's head on the holster nor a close-up of the alledged DH on the gun.

For that asking price I would expect many more photos and a detailed description.

glock30 · 10-10-2011, 09:19 AM

650.00 dollar gun.

bdome · 10-12-2011, 11:10 PM

The holster looks identical to my description with the DH stamped into the leather just below the styalized W. (is styalized W a makers mark?) The pistol looks similar in condition to the one I saw but this pistol does not have the chip out of the grip by the safety lever. The orientation of the DH was the same as on this pistol. The rear toggle link is a different color, probably indicative of a replacement but the purple hue is different than that on the pistol I observed. Other than these differences, the overall condition of the pistol I saw was similar to the one in the auction. I also do not think this is the same pistol cause the one I was looking at was in Minnesota and this one is offered in Illinois.

I probably should have bought the pistol I saw but since I am new to these, I was scared away by the mismatched pieces. As alanint stated earlier, the holster with 2 extra magazines is probably worth $300 alone and I think the dealer would have accepted an offer even lower than his stated price. Oh well......live and learn.

Given what you see in the Guns America auction link, would that pistol and holster be worth $1000 ??

alanint · 10-13-2011, 06:03 AM

Do not be surprised if it is indeed the same gun. The gun you saw could have been purchased by someone in Ill. who then boosted it by replacing the grip in an effort to obtain top dollar for what they think is a rare death's head Luger..

Guns travel around very fast sometimes.

10-01-2011, 05:47 PM	#1
bdome User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 14 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Please Help With Value OF Death's Head 1918 Erfurt Luger Hi All, I am hoping that someone out there might be able to give me a ball park value of a 1918 dated Erfurt, Death's Head luger. I realize that pictures would be helpful but hope that maybe a ballpark figure might be offered by my description. I would rate the bore VG condition. Blueing is probably Good condition with considerable wear on the front strap and back strap. I could not dis-assemble pistol but I can see that the take down lever is mis-matched and the back toggle link is devoid of any serial number. The left side grip is chipped under the safety lever. Magazine is mismatched. What intreages me the most though is the holster. It also has a Death's Head stamp on the front and is dated 1917 on the inside. Also on the inside, the GI who liberated the war trophy wrote his name and rank, along with his HQ Division number. Lastly, the pistol comes with 2 extra magazines, one of which has a cracked bottom. None of the magazine serial numbers match that of the pistol. Any help would be appreciated. Many thanks. Last edited by bdome; 10-01-2011 at 07:07 PM.

10-01-2011, 05:55 PM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Hi Bruce, Without photos there is no way to even give a ballpark value to your gun. The "Death's Head" is a very controvertial marking and most out there have been faked. Please try to post photos! Last edited by alanint; 10-08-2011 at 08:28 AM.

10-05-2011, 03:33 PM	#9
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,763 Thanks: 4,879 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,429 Posts	What intreages me the most though is the holster. It also has a Death's Head stamp on the front and is dated 1917 on the inside. Can you describe where the holster DH is? How big? Any other description? __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

10-01-2011, 07:04 PM	#3
bdome User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 14 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thanks for the reply. I'm unable to add photos as this pistol was at a gun show that I went to today. This guy is a respected, long time luger dealer, so I trust him on the authenticity. He had a price of $1500 on the rig but since I'm a repeat customer, he said he would take $1100. I told him I needed to think about it after finding the mis-matched numbers. Thanks anyway.

10-01-2011, 07:45 PM	#4
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	I think $1,100 is high for what you are describing. A mismatch with extensive wear is a shooter in my book and worth somewhere in the $600-$700. Add another $300, maybe, for the holster and spare mags, (just ballpark since neither have a description).

10-01-2011, 08:08 PM	#5
bdome User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 14 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thank you for the follow up. I realize that photos would have helped but do appreciate your input.

10-03-2011, 02:29 PM	#7
bdome User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 14 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Not sure I understand what you are getting at.

10-05-2011, 03:22 PM	#8
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Ask the dealer to post pictures. If he is legit he won't mind, and will welcome, the scrutiny. dju

10-05-2011, 06:13 PM	#10
bdome User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 14 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	The holster was brown in color and showed wear but it was in very nice shape. Stitching was tight and there were no repairs that I noticed. The Death's Head was maybe 1/2'' to 3/4'' tall and stamped into the leather on (I think) the face of the flap. There was another mark stamped or carved into the leather near the DH stamp. It looked like a stialized W. The 1917 date was stamped into the leather on the inside of the holster. As I said earlier, a GI had also written his name on the inside with ink. He wrote his name, rank and assignment in a HQ Division. I always like the additional markings for their historical content. I wish I had had a camera to take pictures but at the time, I felt the mis-matched numbers on the pistol was a deal breaker for me.

10-08-2011, 07:56 AM	#11
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Is this the gun in question: http://www.gunsamerica.com//96748424...Head.htm?wl=1# dju

10-08-2011, 08:35 AM	#12
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Seems like the same Luger although I don't see a chip around the safety lever. The photos are carefully posed so that there is no way to see if the rear toggle link is marked or the takedown lever mismatched. No details of the death's head on the holster nor a close-up of the alledged DH on the gun. For that asking price I would expect many more photos and a detailed description.

10-10-2011, 09:19 AM	#13
glock30 User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Obama LAND Posts: 206 Thanks: 18 Thanked 17 Times in 14 Posts	650.00 dollar gun.

10-12-2011, 11:10 PM	#14
bdome User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 14 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	The holster looks identical to my description with the DH stamped into the leather just below the styalized W. (is styalized W a makers mark?) The pistol looks similar in condition to the one I saw but this pistol does not have the chip out of the grip by the safety lever. The orientation of the DH was the same as on this pistol. The rear toggle link is a different color, probably indicative of a replacement but the purple hue is different than that on the pistol I observed. Other than these differences, the overall condition of the pistol I saw was similar to the one in the auction. I also do not think this is the same pistol cause the one I was looking at was in Minnesota and this one is offered in Illinois. I probably should have bought the pistol I saw but since I am new to these, I was scared away by the mismatched pieces. As alanint stated earlier, the holster with 2 extra magazines is probably worth $300 alone and I think the dealer would have accepted an offer even lower than his stated price. Oh well......live and learn. Given what you see in the Guns America auction link, would that pistol and holster be worth $1000 ??

10-13-2011, 06:03 AM	#15
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Do not be surprised if it is indeed the same gun. The gun you saw could have been purchased by someone in Ill. who then boosted it by replacing the grip in an effort to obtain top dollar for what they think is a rare death's head Luger.. Guns travel around very fast sometimes.