1917 Luger Efurt

denman · 08-03-2011, 09:16 PM

Just joined but have spent time on the site and others investigating the Luger, here are a couple of pics. The numbers match but the clip does not, these weapons sure have some history.

Edward Tinker · 08-04-2011, 12:53 AM

Nice 1917 Erfurt, its been reblued and buffed, but should make a nice display or shooter.

Depends on how much you paid, but its a luger with a lot of history.

Ed

denman · 08-04-2011, 01:22 AM

It has been in the family since the 30's, has been oiled up from time to time to preserve and tucked away.

Doubs · 08-04-2011, 01:11 PM

Agree with Ed. It's been reblued and appears to have suffered a bit of pitting prior to the refinish; maybe from being stored in a holster? The grips seem to show little wear indicating that it probably wasn't used much.

A mis-matched mag is very common. In case you don't know, in late 1916 the military ordered that all Lugers would have the receiver notched top front to allow use with an Artillery barrel. The notch is necessary for the adjustable rear sight to sit in. Erfurt, a Royal Arsenal, followed the directive but not 100%. (I have a 1917 Erfurt that isn't notched.) DWM, a private company, apparently didn't notch guns that were not intended to be Artillery models.

While your Luger isn't a prime collector's piece it has surely reached heirloom status within your family and that gives it immeasurable value for you. Thanks for allowing us to see it.

JCP · 08-04-2011, 02:20 PM

Yours is similar to mine, a 1917 Erfurt. Mine is posted in the "new collector" section under "1917 Erfurt" by JCP. At some point mine was imported to England and then came to America after WW II. It is my only Luger so far and shoots very well with MecGar magazines and Winchester white box 9mm. Joe

AZjoe · 08-05-2011, 12:05 AM

I have a 1918 Erfurt which appears to be reworked or reblued. (see Avitar)

One proof marking that appears in several locations on mine and deman's gun is (See attachment.)

According to Ted this marking is:

"19. Erfurt and DWM arsenal proof. Indicates arsenal repair, refurbish, or modification."

Could this possibly be an explination for the refurbish?

Doubs · 08-05-2011, 01:35 AM

AZjoe, the crown over RC indicates that the parts so marked did not meet the required critical measurements but were deemed serviceable by the "Revisions Commission" inspectors and thus safely functional. The stamp by the Revisions Commission inspectors also relieved the factory inspectors of any liability in the event of any parts failing that were so stamped.

If your Luger has been reblued, it will have been at some point after leaving the factory... probably many years later.

denman · 08-09-2011, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubs

Agree with Ed. It's been reblued and appears to have suffered a bit of pitting prior to the refinish; maybe from being stored in a holster? The grips seem to show little wear indicating that it probably wasn't used much.

A mis-matched mag is very common. In case you don't know, in late 1916 the military ordered that all Lugers would have the receiver notched top front to allow use with an Artillery barrel. The notch is necessary for the adjustable rear sight to sit in. Erfurt, a Royal Arsenal, followed the directive but not 100%. (I have a 1917 Erfurt that isn't notched.) DWM, a private company, apparently didn't notch guns that were not intended to be Artillery models.

While your Luger isn't a prime collector's piece it has surely reached heirloom status within your family and that gives it immeasurable value for you. Thanks for allowing us to see it.

The finish is constant throughout the parts of the weapon, and am not convinced that it has been re-blued, more that what you are seeing is it being oiled down to preserve, but I defer to the expertise here in the forum. I will continue to look further into the history of the weapons, I know that there are more of these in my future, thanks for the info.

alanint · 08-09-2011, 06:51 AM

Welcome to the forum,
There is no question that your gun has been reblued. Your best evidence is in the photo you sent of the 4 proof marks on the right side of the pistol. The "scallop" in the frame just above the gun's chamber should be crisp and well defined. Your grips have been "freshened" by someone chasing the checkering cuts or they are replacements.
Nice gun that will make a nice shooter but it is not collectable.

Doubs · 08-09-2011, 01:19 PM

A 1917 Erfurt Luger should have four strawed parts: trigger, safety lever, locking bolt and the ejector. All four on your gun are blued and that is proof positive that the gun has been reblued. Also, is any of the pitting under the bluing? The only way that is possible is if the bluing was applied over them. Another tip is that the safety bar that appears when the safety is applied should be in the white.

At some point in it's life, someone decided that the pistol would look better if it was refinished. Few gunsmiths actually take the time to buff a gun in a way that will keep the various stamps sharp as that requires far more time than reasonable for him to make a profit.

No one is being critical of your pistol but it is what it is. Enjoy it for the pleasure of owning a unique piece of history. I sure would.

Neil Young · 08-09-2011, 02:08 PM

Very nicely put Doubs.

Neil

08-03-2011, 09:16 PM	#1
denman New User Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1917 Luger Efurt Just joined but have spent time on the site and others investigating the Luger, here are a couple of pics. The numbers match but the clip does not, these weapons sure have some history.

08-04-2011, 12:53 AM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Nice 1917 Erfurt, its been reblued and buffed, but should make a nice display or shooter. Depends on how much you paid, but its a luger with a lot of history. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-05-2011, 12:05 AM	#6
AZjoe User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Goodyear, AZ Posts: 24 Thanks: 23 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Markings on Erfurt I have a 1918 Erfurt which appears to be reworked or reblued. (see Avitar) One proof marking that appears in several locations on mine and deman's gun is (See attachment.) According to Ted this marking is: "19. Erfurt and DWM arsenal proof. Indicates arsenal repair, refurbish, or modification." Could this possibly be an explination for the refurbish? Attached Images

08-09-2011, 06:51 AM	#9
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Welcome to the forum, There is no question that your gun has been reblued. Your best evidence is in the photo you sent of the 4 proof marks on the right side of the pistol. The "scallop" in the frame just above the gun's chamber should be crisp and well defined. Your grips have been "freshened" by someone chasing the checkering cuts or they are replacements. Nice gun that will make a nice shooter but it is not collectable. Last edited by alanint; 08-09-2011 at 01:57 PM.

08-09-2011, 02:08 PM	#11
Neil Young Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Scottsboro, Alabama Posts: 548 Thanks: 566 Thanked 443 Times in 168 Posts	Very nicely put Doubs. Neil __________________ Neil The hurrier I go the behinder I get. Sometimes it takes me all day to get nothing done.

08-04-2011, 01:22 AM	#3
denman New User Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	It has been in the family since the 30's, has been oiled up from time to time to preserve and tucked away.

08-04-2011, 01:11 PM	#4
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,736 Thanks: 819 Thanked 1,769 Times in 586 Posts	Agree with Ed. It's been reblued and appears to have suffered a bit of pitting prior to the refinish; maybe from being stored in a holster? The grips seem to show little wear indicating that it probably wasn't used much. A mis-matched mag is very common. In case you don't know, in late 1916 the military ordered that all Lugers would have the receiver notched top front to allow use with an Artillery barrel. The notch is necessary for the adjustable rear sight to sit in. Erfurt, a Royal Arsenal, followed the directive but not 100%. (I have a 1917 Erfurt that isn't notched.) DWM, a private company, apparently didn't notch guns that were not intended to be Artillery models. While your Luger isn't a prime collector's piece it has surely reached heirloom status within your family and that gives it immeasurable value for you. Thanks for allowing us to see it.

08-04-2011, 02:20 PM	#5
JCP User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 23 Thanks: 0 Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts	Yours is similar to mine, a 1917 Erfurt. Mine is posted in the "new collector" section under "1917 Erfurt" by JCP. At some point mine was imported to England and then came to America after WW II. It is my only Luger so far and shoots very well with MecGar magazines and Winchester white box 9mm. Joe

08-05-2011, 01:35 AM	#7
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,736 Thanks: 819 Thanked 1,769 Times in 586 Posts	AZjoe, the crown over RC indicates that the parts so marked did not meet the required critical measurements but were deemed serviceable by the "Revisions Commission" inspectors and thus safely functional. The stamp by the Revisions Commission inspectors also relieved the factory inspectors of any liability in the event of any parts failing that were so stamped. If your Luger has been reblued, it will have been at some point after leaving the factory... probably many years later.

08-09-2011, 01:19 PM	#10
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,736 Thanks: 819 Thanked 1,769 Times in 586 Posts	A 1917 Erfurt Luger should have four strawed parts: trigger, safety lever, locking bolt and the ejector. All four on your gun are blued and that is proof positive that the gun has been reblued. Also, is any of the pitting under the bluing? The only way that is possible is if the bluing was applied over them. Another tip is that the safety bar that appears when the safety is applied should be in the white. At some point in it's life, someone decided that the pistol would look better if it was refinished. Few gunsmiths actually take the time to buff a gun in a way that will keep the various stamps sharp as that requires far more time than reasonable for him to make a profit. No one is being critical of your pistol but it is what it is. Enjoy it for the pleasure of owning a unique piece of history. I sure would.