help with luger

[mathews28]

new to this site and i know nothing about lugers so i was directed here. elderly gentleman donated a german luger to church for them to sell. They give it to me to find out what it is worth and any potential buyers. appears to have all matching numbers, two dates 1918 and 1920,dwm, has officers initials on the gun and the holster and comes with extra clip. i have several pictures i can email to someone who is well versed in these guns

[Ron Smith]

Hi Richie,

Send them to me and I'll post them for you.

amelson@comcast.net

Ron

[mrerick]

Hi Richie,

Welcome to the forum. The pictures are needed in order to judge much about your Luger.

It's most likely made by DWM in Germany in 1918. The "1920" is a Wiemar Republic property mark (not a year) that was applied when the gun was re-worked after World War I - likely for police or army use.

Collectors like Lugers that are as close to original manufactured state as possible. Thus the value increases when they are complete, all matching, in original finish and "correct" in all ways. Pictures are needed in order to judge this.

If you are near a member, one of us would likely be happy to inspect it for you and share opinions about it and it's value.

Marc

[Ron Smith]

Richie's Luger photos.


Richie,

You stated that it has the "Officer's intitials".What are the Intitials you speak of?

This is a fairly nice Police Luger and holster. Does it have markings stamped on the front grip strap? If so, they would be the Police unit marks.

Is the holster marked?

Do the serial numbers on the magazines match the serial number on the pistol?

To aid in evaluation, we would need 'full frame views' of both sides, and the top of the Luger, as well as the front and back grip straps. Also full frame views of the back and front of the holster with flap open, and closed. And a reasonably clear close-up of any markings. The smallest flaw can affect the value significantly.

Ron

[Ron Wood]

I have noticed that sometimes individuals totally unfamiliar with Lugers will guess that the elaborate DWM on the toggle is a monogram of an officer's initials. I suspect that is the case here.

[Edward Tinker]

Personally, I have trouble 'seeing' the DWM, I am amazed so many new people can figure it out....

SIMSON is so much easier to read

Ed

[alanint]

There is a large chip is out of the left grip, above the magazine release.

[Ron Smith]

"There is a large chip is out of the left grip, above the magazine release."

Possibly a magazine safety cut-out.

[mathews28]

i will get the gun again tonight and take a few more pics. Ask as many quewstions possible and when i get it i will try to answer them and take pics of any area you need. unfortunatley the guy holding the gun wont leave it. thanks for all the help

[alanint]

Ron, I thought of that but there is no provision for a mag safety on this gun, which would at least make these grips non matching if they are indeed cut out for the mag safety.

[Ron Smith]

Doug,

You're correct. I failed to notice that there's no cut in the side panel, good call.

Ron

[Don M]

Originally Posted by Ron Smith

You're correct. I failed to notice that there's no cut in the side panel, good call.

While Doug and Ron may well be correct, I see what may be a well filled-in slot. One way to tell for sure is to remove the side plate and see if there is a hole drilled through the frame above the trigger.

[Ron Smith]

Don,

You beat me to it. I was just going to say that.

Ron

[mecano44]

On the picture I can see that this gun has the " Schiwy Safety " that was introduced in 1930 ( according to my books)

Means that this "Weimar Gun " could have been reworked twice ??

Does this increase a little the value ???

[Don M]

Originally Posted by mecano44

On the picture I can see that this gun has the " Schiwy Safety " that was introduced in 1930 ( according to my books)

Means that this "Weimar Gun " could have been reworked twice ??

Does this increase a little the value ???

Pierre,

The Schiwy (sear) and Walther (magazine) safeties were "introduced" via an order in August 1933 requiring their installation on most police Lugers. The actual installations probably occurred in 1934 or later. The Walther safety quickly was determined to be undesirable and, in many cases, was never installed. Virtually all of the Walther safeties that were installed initially were later removed or deactivated by order dated 1937. If you consider the installation and removal of these safeties to be "reworks," this gun may have been "reworked" twice. However, we don't yet know if it ever had a Walther safety.

These modifications were part of the service history of these pistols and don't really affect value in my opinion.

[mathews28]

o.k. he brought the gun back and inspected it some more. All the numbers match. There is a 3 letter innitial K.L.J. except the J is backward and the number 136 on the gun. Serial number on gun is in the back of holster and the number 136 is stamped in the inside of holster. Do these numbers mean anything to anybody. i am trying to post the pictures but having problems

[Don M]

Richie, this gun is becoming very interesting to me! The marking on the front grip strap is the subject of much conjecture. Please see this thread (http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=26006) for the current state of debate on this. While your marking is not exactly the same as the one at the top of the thread, if you will click on the link to my website (referenced in the thread) you will see how your marking is related.

I am extremely interested in seeing photos of the grip strap marking as well as the matching holster. If you cannot post them, email them to me at the address below and I will post them.

Also, please let me know if there is a small, script letter below the serial number stamped on the front of the frame above the trigger guard. A photo of this would be helpful.

[Ron Smith]

More photos of the Luger and holster. WOW!!!

Tool pouch is missing from the holster, but other than that, a very nice matching Police Rig.

[Ron Smith]

Is anyone willing to pose an estimate for Richie?

[Don M]

Originally Posted by Ron Smith

Is anyone willing to pose an estimate for Richie?

I have a firm practice of never making an estimate while salivating.

Richie, to answer the questions you posed in your email, the markings on the right side of the receiver are typical military acceptances and a firing proof stamp. These are found on weapons indicating they have passed various government inspections and that the weapon has been successfully proof tested. This pistol was manufactured in 1918 during the final year of WWI and may or may not have seen action with the military. Following the war, it was issued (or reissued) to the police and, in 1920, received a stamp on top of the chamber indicating it belonged to the government. It served with a yet-unidentified police unit through the Weimar era and WWII. It received a sear (Schiwy) safety some time after 1933. I now believe it never had a magazine safety since none of the other Lugers with this marking has one. It continued to serve with the police through WWII. There is evidence that these pistols were captured by U.S. troops in Bavaria so any information you can learn about this one's capture may be of great help in identifying the police unit it belonged to.

I believe I see an eagle/Su25 stamp on the bottom of the barrel indicating the pistol was rebarreled at the Spandau arsenal. This is found on a couple of other Lugers from this unit.