I Broke My German Tanker Ashtray

[cirelaw]

I received this handman German ashtray who used shells to make it, It had been broken before and was repair using it appear some epoxy. Any suggestions for a more permaneny solution. Can anyone ID these shells

[alanint]

Assuming that these projectiles have been properly demilled brazing the bases to the "ashtray" should hold them in place.
I would look at the interior of ALL the projectiles carefully.

[cirelaw]

Im new at this! What is 'brazing'?

[policeluger]

tigweld it.....better fix......but I don't want to take it on.

[cirelaw]

I would burn myself with a Bic lighter!!

[hansfischer007]

Try JB WELD.....it has worked for me on a number of projects.......should do the job.......Hans Fischer

[the gunman]

37 and 20 MM shells

[cirelaw]

Tks to you both!

[policeluger]

good luck

[Olle]

I wouldn't use anything that involves heat, that would ruin the finish and patina. Why not drill and tap? It seems like you'll have plenty of room to screw from the inside when the center piece is removed.

[cirelaw]

Check Your mail box!

[the gunman]

Your a Sweetheart Eric.

[ithacaartist]

The original joining appears to have been done with silver brazing alloy (silver solder) or perhaps lead/tin solder. These are both adhesive processes that use way less heat than "brazing", which uses bronze alloy filler rod. Soft solder(lead/tin) tends to be the least structural, but it uses the least heat to melt the filler and adhere it to the work. Any heat applied to any area will result in the entire piece heating up, because brass and copper parts are very conductive. A clean, tight-fitting joint is very important whatever the process.
JBWeld is great stuff for the right project, but on metal, only a superficial adhesive bond is accomplished, susceptible to falling apart if, say, you dropped the completed work on the floor afterwards. If you choose to reattach the outside shells with a metalurgical process, be certain to remove ALL traces of old JBWeld, as it will affect the quality of the finished joint.
I figure the person who initially created this ashtray wrecked the patina on it to begin with, via his own heating of the piece, but if you have concerns about the appearance of the patina, then I agree with Ollie--drill and tap. Ollie, how is adding a set of new fasteners and holes in the components any better aesthetically than re-soldering? Heat would wreck the paint? Were the projectiles originally painted? If so, the FIRST guy wrecked the patina when he soldered them to the central brass, and then touched them up/repainted.

[cirelaw]

I took some closeup to see if your orriginal accesssment remain this same. Any hint on how to remove the old epoxy? Was this scew base original?? Kinda Francis LLoyd Wright! Its dated 1940 and 3 nazi proof marks!

[cirelaw]

You were right there a little pins that petrude and corresponding hole in the brass. Crafty Germans!!

[ithacaartist]

Sorry, I don't know enough about the construction of the rounds to say whether the threads were there to begin with. I suspect the projectile was fastened to the big shell base with a handy stud from something else, but cannot say for certain. Anybody else help w/ this?

OK, I'm reassessing the original joining process based on your latest pics; now I think it was originally put together with lead solder, which will adhere to brass just fine and hold until you drop it again.
Removal of epoxy and excess solder to prepare the areas for soldering again is most safely accomplished by physical means. Scrape off the offending material, as both old epoxy and solder will yield to a steel blade or a coarse Dremel wire brush. Turn the speed way down on the Dremel, as the friction of higher speeds will tend to just mush the solder around rather than removing it. An Xacto loop blade or scraper blade would be the first thing I'd try. This will definitely remove the epoxy, and only enough old solder need be removed to be physically out of the way of the desired position of the parts, clean and shiny to eliminate the corrosion's being incorporated into the new joint, and finally aesthetically pleasing--without excess solder appearing where you do not want it. This is one of those times when more is not better.
Apply paste or rosin flux to the exposed shiny sides of the joint, avoiding areas where you do not want solder. Acid flux is usually used for steel, galvanized, or stainless.
Solder is available in a range of melting temps from 180 to 840 degrees F; get one from the lower end.
Arrange your pieces in final desired position and hold them in place with a jig or heat proof positioning putty. I'd stabilize the final assembly so that one joined piece does not decide to fall off while you're working on the next.
Then re-solder keeping the heat as even as you can on the 2 parts being joined. A small oxy-acetylene torch tip set to a slightly reducing (soft) cone allows relative concentration of the heat applied to the joint area, to minimize heat damage to the rest of the piece. Work quickly; again, this minimizes peripheral heat damage--you're in and out before enough heat conducts to fry the paint. Generally, preheat the surfaces and swoop in with a dab of solder, which should melt, adhere to both sides of the joint, and fill the small volume between them without a lot sticking out from the joint when completed. It may be that enough solder will be left after cleanup for it to fuse together again with no extra solder added.
If heated too much, the flux's protective and cleaning properties will give way to oxidation and corrosion of the joint and surfaces; in this case, you'll have to start over with the cleanup and prep, and try again.
Practice this procedure on some scrap pieces of brass first until you have enough of a feel for what is going on. Be patient and methodical.
Good luck! Let us know how it goes...

[cirelaw]

Thanks For The Instructions. Im going with the m JB WELD any heat treatment scares the merde out of me, Your method is by far the strongest. But safety is the best for me. Thank You ev er so much for Your assistance, Eric

[Olle]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Ollie, how is adding a set of new fasteners and holes in the components any better aesthetically than re-soldering? Heat would wreck the paint?

Yeah, I'm afraid that any method using heat will damage the paint and the old patina around the joints. I would use screws from the inside, that way you won't see much of them unless you peek inside. If you still want to use solder, use a large iron heated with a torch (like they used in the old time radiator shops), it will apply a lot of heat quickly. Once the solder melts, cool it down with a wet rag to prevent the heat from spreading. An electric soldering iron takes longer so it will spread the heat further out from the joint, and a torch is a no-no in my opinion.

[cirelaw]

Debbie my wife wants to use epoxy first to avoid any heat whatsoever. When I got it the previous owner used epoxy which worked until I droped it. She says its worth a try. Ill post some picture of her progress. Thank for your valued assistance!

[cirelaw]

Debbie put me together after my stroke, this should be a 'piece of cake'