Artillery Luger

Thomas-J. · 03-31-2011, 04:20 PM

Stumbled into this 1916 DWM Artillery Luger and really just trying to figure stuff out. I am wondering if it is worth sending off for an appraisal or if that is something that will even make a difference. Thanks for any help.

Thomas-J. · 03-31-2011, 04:21 PM

As far as I can tell all the numbers are matching, gun looks a whole lot better than pics show.

FNorm · 03-31-2011, 04:24 PM

From the acceptance marks, I'm going to guess a 1917 DWM. Take a pic of the top/toggle area. Also the serial number on the front of the frame, under the barrel. Nice looking piece.

FN

Thomas-J. · 03-31-2011, 04:56 PM

My pics are not very good, I appologize.

Edward Tinker · 03-31-2011, 05:02 PM

Why would you want to send it off for an appraisel?

Are you selling?

Bought it really cheap or what?

ed

George Anderson · 03-31-2011, 06:35 PM

Thomas, the pistol appears to be reblued. One more good sharp photo of the DWM marked toggle link will either prove it good or redone.

FNorm · 03-31-2011, 06:39 PM

1916? OK, HSS not TSS on the rt. chamber. or maybe SSS. Could we get a close up of the rt side of the chamber? I wasn't very clear about the frame number under the barrel. On the very front of the frame, just above the trigger guard, is a number. Sometimes with a script letter under it.
FN

Thomas-J. · 03-31-2011, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

Why would you want to send it off for an appraisel?

Are you selling?

Bought it really cheap or what?

ed

Mr Tinker,
I am not selling it as of yet, first I must become educated and I figure you guys would be very helpful in that matter. I got it out of a pawn shop and I guess cheap is relative, but over 1K, less than what I think it is worth, but definetly not what I would call cheap. My pictures suck, I don't believe it to be reblued, it does "halo" on the 2 digit numbers. I would like to have it appraised so that I know what I have and having an expert look at it would be worth it to me.It looks right to me, but I know very little of Lugers. I guess I answered my own question, I will send it off and have it appraised. I am into old cowboy guns and if the money was right, yes I would convert it into an old Winchester or Colt. I am sorry if that troubles or offends you in any way.

Thomas

DavidJayUden · 03-31-2011, 07:58 PM

No offense here. We all have our priorities. Get it to someone who wants it.
And it looks very nice to me. I just wish I couild stumble into pawn shops like that.
dju

Thomas-J. · 03-31-2011, 08:30 PM

Here is another poor toggle pic, I will work on better pics this weekend.
I really am in no hurry to get rid of this piece, I like quality firearms but I also like to know exactly what I have. If it were a Colt I would not hesitate to get a factory letter, if it were a Winchester,a Madis appraisal. I perceive an appraisal from someone like Collectors Firearms as a comparable option.

alanint · 03-31-2011, 10:33 PM

Guys, look at the barrel contour at the rear sight. This is NOT consistent with a factory artillery unless it has really been heavily buffed.

(This opinion contingent on better photos of the rear sight area)

Thomas-J. · 03-31-2011, 11:36 PM

I will get better pics up Saturday. This thread shows why any novice in their right mind would want an "expert" opinion / appraisal on an item they are not up to speed on. I would like to know the Lugers value, but I am just as interested in its correctness.My pictures leave alot to be desired. I do appreciate everyone that is trying to help out on this. I gotta say the Germans sure seemed to mark every part on these guns.

Thomas

Norme · 03-31-2011, 11:49 PM

Hi Thomas, I don't believe anyone has yet welcomed you to the forum. Welcome! If your gun has been refinished, which I suspect it has, it is worth $1,000.00 to $1,500.00. If the finish were original, and all parts had matching numbers, about twice that. I hope this helps. Regards, Norm

Thomas-J. · 04-01-2011, 12:19 AM

Norm,
Thanks for the welcome! I am not sure what to think of you guys yet, the word fanatical comes to mind.

I welcome everyones opinion of this Luger, I will be very surprised to find that it is not original but it would not be the first time I was wrong, just ask my wife.

I will see if I can't get some help with some stronger pics.

Thomas

lugerholsterrepair · 04-01-2011, 01:23 AM

Thomas, Frankly the photo's as you already know are second best to a good hands on look. There are some good signs too..the strawed parts. It is not obviously overbuffed that I can see...the bluing IS stron and dark which is questionable. The serial under the barrel looks awfully light. The Gesichert safety looks colored..a good sign. Has some high point wear on the sideplate..good.
Is the muzzle in the white? You can take the pistol apart and it is a good sign if the inside of the pistol is in the white..not blued. Both on the underside of the toggle/bolt area and the inside rail area of the reciever. On original Imperial pistols these were found to spall and create friction if blued.
And yes..welcome to the Forum..Please forgive Ed's abrupt response..normally he is a good and welcoming fellow but he is in Iraq dealing with many aggravations. I am sure he will be himself tomorrow.

Yes, better photo's if you can manage it and you can perhaps save yourself an expensive appraisal.

Thomas-J. · 04-02-2011, 09:04 PM

OK, sunlight, cameras, and mixed drinks are not my forte, but these pics are probably a better representation.

Thanks,
Thomas

Thomas-J. · 04-02-2011, 09:09 PM

I hope alot of pics is OK.

Thomas-J. · 04-02-2011, 09:12 PM

Taking this apart scared me to death, very intuitive and easy though.

Thomas-J. · 04-02-2011, 09:15 PM

I really need to clean her up!

Thomas-J. · 04-02-2011, 09:19 PM

and still more....

03-31-2011, 04:20 PM	#1
Thomas-J. User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 17 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Artillery Luger Stumbled into this 1916 DWM Artillery Luger and really just trying to figure stuff out. I am wondering if it is worth sending off for an appraisal or if that is something that will even make a difference. Thanks for any help. Attached Thumbnails

03-31-2011, 04:56 PM	#4
Thomas-J. User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 17 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My pics are not very good, I appologize. Attached Thumbnails

03-31-2011, 05:02 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,926 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts	Why would you want to send it off for an appraisel? Are you selling? Bought it really cheap or what? ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-31-2011, 06:39 PM	#7
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	1916? OK, HSS not TSS on the rt. chamber. or maybe SSS. Could we get a close up of the rt side of the chamber? I wasn't very clear about the frame number under the barrel. On the very front of the frame, just above the trigger guard, is a number. Sometimes with a script letter under it. FN Last edited by FNorm; 03-31-2011 at 06:44 PM. Reason: corr

04-01-2011, 01:23 AM	#15
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,766 Thanks: 4,883 Thanked 3,121 Times in 1,432 Posts	Thomas, Frankly the photo's as you already know are second best to a good hands on look. There are some good signs too..the strawed parts. It is not obviously overbuffed that I can see...the bluing IS stron and dark which is questionable. The serial under the barrel looks awfully light. The Gesichert safety looks colored..a good sign. Has some high point wear on the sideplate..good. Is the muzzle in the white? You can take the pistol apart and it is a good sign if the inside of the pistol is in the white..not blued. Both on the underside of the toggle/bolt area and the inside rail area of the reciever. On original Imperial pistols these were found to spall and create friction if blued. And yes..welcome to the Forum..Please forgive Ed's abrupt response..normally he is a good and welcoming fellow but he is in Iraq dealing with many aggravations. I am sure he will be himself tomorrow. Yes, better photo's if you can manage it and you can perhaps save yourself an expensive appraisal. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-31-2011, 04:21 PM	#2
Thomas-J. User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 17 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	As far as I can tell all the numbers are matching, gun looks a whole lot better than pics show.

03-31-2011, 04:24 PM	#3
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	From the acceptance marks, I'm going to guess a 1917 DWM. Take a pic of the top/toggle area. Also the serial number on the front of the frame, under the barrel. Nice looking piece. FN

03-31-2011, 06:35 PM	#6
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	Thomas, the pistol appears to be reblued. One more good sharp photo of the DWM marked toggle link will either prove it good or redone.

03-31-2011, 07:58 PM	#9
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	No offense here. We all have our priorities. Get it to someone who wants it. And it looks very nice to me. I just wish I couild stumble into pawn shops like that. dju

03-31-2011, 08:30 PM	#10
Thomas-J. User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 17 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here is another poor toggle pic, I will work on better pics this weekend. I really am in no hurry to get rid of this piece, I like quality firearms but I also like to know exactly what I have. If it were a Colt I would not hesitate to get a factory letter, if it were a Winchester,a Madis appraisal. I perceive an appraisal from someone like Collectors Firearms as a comparable option.

03-31-2011, 10:33 PM	#11
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Guys, look at the barrel contour at the rear sight. This is NOT consistent with a factory artillery unless it has really been heavily buffed. (This opinion contingent on better photos of the rear sight area)

03-31-2011, 11:36 PM	#12
Thomas-J. User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 17 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I will get better pics up Saturday. This thread shows why any novice in their right mind would want an "expert" opinion / appraisal on an item they are not up to speed on. I would like to know the Lugers value, but I am just as interested in its correctness.My pictures leave alot to be desired. I do appreciate everyone that is trying to help out on this. I gotta say the Germans sure seemed to mark every part on these guns. Thomas

03-31-2011, 11:49 PM	#13
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 225 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Thomas, I don't believe anyone has yet welcomed you to the forum. Welcome! If your gun has been refinished, which I suspect it has, it is worth $1,000.00 to $1,500.00. If the finish were original, and all parts had matching numbers, about twice that. I hope this helps. Regards, Norm

04-01-2011, 12:19 AM	#14
Thomas-J. User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 17 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Norm, Thanks for the welcome! I am not sure what to think of you guys yet, the word fanatical comes to mind. I welcome everyones opinion of this Luger, I will be very surprised to find that it is not original but it would not be the first time I was wrong, just ask my wife. I will see if I can't get some help with some stronger pics. Thomas

04-02-2011, 09:04 PM	#16
Thomas-J. User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 17 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	OK, sunlight, cameras, and mixed drinks are not my forte, but these pics are probably a better representation. Thanks, Thomas Attached Thumbnails __________________ "Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ... the unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." Tench Coxe Last edited by Thomas-J.; 04-03-2011 at 01:05 AM.

04-02-2011, 09:09 PM	#17
Thomas-J. User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 17 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I hope alot of pics is OK. Attached Thumbnails __________________ "Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ... the unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." Tench Coxe

04-02-2011, 09:12 PM	#18
Thomas-J. User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 17 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Taking this apart scared me to death, very intuitive and easy though. Attached Thumbnails __________________ "Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ... the unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." Tench Coxe

04-02-2011, 09:15 PM	#19
Thomas-J. User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 17 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I really need to clean her up! Attached Thumbnails __________________ "Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ... the unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." Tench Coxe

04-02-2011, 09:19 PM	#20
Thomas-J. User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 17 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	and still more.... Attached Thumbnails __________________ "Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ... the unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." Tench Coxe