New to me Arty Luger

Florida Marine · 08-22-2010, 08:56 PM

So my dad died just over two years ago and before he died - he stated he wanted me to get to my God Father to get a arty Luger he had given him years ago (from a stash that will astound and sadden a number of folks...long story for another time).

So I got it out of a less then gun friendly state, snuck through a few others back to my current fairly gun friendly state of VA where I am stationed as a LtCol of Marines...but home state is Florida.

Has the leather holster, all same serial numbers.

Its a 1915, serial number 7755, very small amount of pitting with majority on the back strap, small amount around the trigger and the plate that appears to be a take down on the left side that comes off when you spin the lever in front of the trigger housing (sorry, still learning Lugers - I am more an AR15 guy).

I need to give this a good cleaning and I am sure some of the pitting will clean off or become less prominent. Grips are clean, need some oil to make them a little less dry looking, read the sticky on that already - gotta put a Brownells order in.

Holster is great condition with two mags.

Wouldn't dream of selling it since it was literally one of my dad's dying wishes that I go get it and I am a way out there gun nut, but whats a rough idea what this is worth? Prices in my quick research are all over the place.

Also - should I shoot it? Bore and barrel are clean.

sheepherder · 08-22-2010, 10:05 PM

Please post pics...

Very difficult to appraise without them...

DavidJayUden · 08-22-2010, 11:08 PM

Generally Artillery Lugers seem to bring over $1500 all the way up to $5k, depending on matching mags, matching stock, complete rig, as well as gun condition. They are good property but we need those photos to be more specific.
Welcome.
dju

DavidJayUden · 08-22-2010, 11:11 PM

Also, don't do more than clean it with light oil and a soft cloth until we get a look at it. Read the posts regarding safe cleaning practices, as a wrong move could cost you big time. Hold off shooting it for a while too until we can determine what you have.
dju

Mauser720 · 08-22-2010, 11:25 PM

Florida Marine -

The serial number is 7755 and you should see "55" on lots of other parts. Look on the bottom of the two magazines and see what their serial numbers are too. If you see the serial numbers match (7755 plus 55, which is the last two digits of the serial number) then you have a "matching" Luger. And that commands a premium since it means all the parts are original. And if the serial numbers on the two magazines also match, then the pistol will command an additional premium in terms of value. If the pistol is all matching (regardless of the magazines), you might not want to shoot it. The reason for this is that if even one of these matching serial number parts breaks, you will reduce the collector value of the Luger by about half. And they can break, and sometimes they do break too.

Of course if you see numbers other than "55" on the numbered parts, it is not a matching Luger, and you are not risking anything by shooting it.

You should look for a small gothic letter underneath the full serial number too.

So hopefully this answers the "shoot or don't shoot" question; however, as postino has pointed out, pictures are necessary to more accurately assess value.

Please be real careful when you remove the left grip, or you may break a chip out of the wood underneath the safety lever. The grips are serially numbered on the inside too. It's best to remove the right grip first. Then remove the left grip screw, and gently lift the grip only very slightly outward at the base and then downward to avoid any pressure on the wood underneath the safety lever.

The holster is important too if it is original. If you can, please post a couple pictures of it too.

Well, you may be an AR-15 guy, but your M-9 is using the same cartridge as your 1915 Artillery Luger! Neat, huh?

John Sabato · 08-23-2010, 08:33 AM

Welcome Marine from a old retired U.S. Army Sergeant... let's see the photos of it as soon as you have a chance.

mrerick · 08-23-2010, 03:56 PM

Hi Sean,

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your service!

Ron's advice ("Mauser720") is excellent and based upon quite a bit of experience.

A 95 year old firearm will naturally have some subsurface rust (FeO3 form of Iron Oxide) and, in fact, is what collectors look for to verify the age of an original factory rust blued finish like your Arty should have.

The areas where oxide is aggressively pitting the surface need to be stabilized, and penetrating oil and gentle q-tip class rubbing can help remove the rust itself. Be careful about going much further without letting members here have a look at pictures...

Marc

Florida Marine · 08-23-2010, 08:40 PM

OK here we go!

Florida Marine · 08-23-2010, 08:46 PM

One magazine is a light silver, one is black... Sadly my Godfather had the one stored in the holster (as was the pistol) and it had some surface rust. I am betting if he didn't store this in the holster it would have less surface issues.

The story behind this was my dad had FIVE foot lockers of German weapons when I was a kid, he was cleaning them for the secretary at work (her father was in the OSI and brought them back from WWII). It had every imaginable kind of weapon, arty lugers with the wood case, regular barrel and some snub nose versions. He took several as payment and she sold the remaining for... $500.00.

My dad almost had a coronary. He was pretty upset. There were presentation swords, youth knives...it was huge. This was like 1974 or so, but I remember him working on these for a few months every night. Over the years we had to sell several to make ends meet - this is the last one that he gave to my Godfather form some reason (he could not remember and dad is dead...so no telling)

I will not sell it. My son will get this and my entire weapons collection when I pass along.

Florida Marine · 08-23-2010, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrerick

Hi Sean,

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your service!

Ron's advice ("Mauser720") is excellent and based upon quite a bit of experience.

A 95 year old firearm will naturally have some subsurface rust (FeO3 form of Iron Oxide) and, in fact, is what collectors look for to verify the age of an original factory rust blued finish like your Arty should have.

The areas where oxide is aggressively pitting the surface need to be stabilized, and penetrating oil and gentle q-tip class rubbing can help remove the rust itself. Be careful about going much further without letting members here have a look at pictures...

Marc

Point taken, all it has received is a rub down from the wash cloth I borrowed from the hotel in PA yesterday. Have not had the time to do anything and will stay away until I get some guidance from you all!

I build and collect a number of other weapons, just not WWII German stuff. I have a Remington Rand .45 from WWII that was my fathers also.

Now that I think about it I guess I do have another German weapon, I have a Mauser my Grandad got somewhere, and sadly sportorized. I also have a over/under .410/.45 German tear gas gun, looks like a derringer with a fold under trigger...neat was my dad's also.

All my stuff is current military issue or I use it for hunting, my main passion.

Florida Marine · 08-23-2010, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mauser720

Florida Marine -

The serial number is 7755 and you should see "55" on lots of other parts. Look on the bottom of the two magazines and see what their serial numbers are too. If you see the serial numbers match (7755 plus 55, which is the last two digits of the serial number) then you have a "matching" Luger. And that commands a premium since it means all the parts are original. And if the serial numbers on the two magazines also match, then the pistol will command an additional premium in terms of value. If the pistol is all matching (regardless of the magazines), you might not want to shoot it. The reason for this is that if even one of these matching serial number parts breaks, you will reduce the collector value of the Luger by about half. And they can break, and sometimes they do break too.

Of course if you see numbers other than "55" on the numbered parts, it is not a matching Luger, and you are not risking anything by shooting it.

You should look for a small gothic letter underneath the full serial number too.

So hopefully this answers the "shoot or don't shoot" question; however, as postino has pointed out, pictures are necessary to more accurately assess value.

Please be real careful when you remove the left grip, or you may break a chip out of the wood underneath the safety lever. The grips are serially numbered on the inside too. It's best to remove the right grip first. Then remove the left grip screw, and gently lift the grip only very slightly outward at the base and then downward to avoid any pressure on the wood underneath the safety lever.

The holster is important too if it is original. If you can, please post a couple pictures of it too.

Well, you may be an AR-15 guy, but your M-9 is using the same cartridge as your 1915 Artillery Luger! Neat, huh?

I will wait to do anything...but thanks for the guidance on taking it apart. I am hesitant to do anything to this until I have a full understanding of how to proceed. Based on everything having the 55 of the 7755, I would lay money the grips are the correct ones also. Pics of the holster are a few posts of.

Thanks to all of you for the comments and welcome!

Sean

mrerick · 08-23-2010, 09:54 PM

From the photos that are in focus, I think it's likely this gun is in original factory finish. The toggle axle retaining pin is still in the white.

When you disassemble it, you should find that the frame interior is also in the white (not blued). Same thing with the safety bar that rises up against the sear. The muzzle is also properly in the white.

You didn't post pictures of them, but the barrel serial number stamping should have light "halos" surrounding the digits. This is further evidence that it wasn't refinished. Check the witness mark stamped across the receiver and barrel where they come together. This can provide evidence that they were not separated since being mated at the factory.

The grips look unusually dry and clean. Thankfully, your left grip is not chipped where it usually happens (near the safety lever at the top rear).

Your magazines are not Imperial vintage. They come from the WW-II period in the late 1930s to early 1940s.

The active rust corrosion does need to be stabilized, and you probably do need to get a look under the grips.

As to removing the FeO3 rust, others probably have better advice than I do. I'm not sure if the rust blued surfaces (which is FeO4 Ferric Oxide) need to be treated differently than the strawed surfaces (trigger) when removing rust.

You have a very nice LP-08. The micro adjustable front and rear site are excellent to have.

It's difficult to photograph Lugers without a tripod. Most digital cameras allow you to select the major focal point, but everything has to be steady for it to work properly. Even the smallest tripod will help improve your pictures.

Please let us know more as you explore your LP-08!

Marc

DavidJayUden · 08-23-2010, 11:55 PM

Nice gun.
Check youtube for instructions on disassembly.
I like Hoppe's #9 and a toothbrush for the metal. Smells good and won't hurt anything. Finish with a good coat of oil. Some use the finest 0000 steel wool, but I had another say to get a nickeled pad thru Brownells. But remember to above all do no harm...
dju

Florida Marine · 08-24-2010, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

Nice gun.
Check youtube for instructions on disassembly.
I like Hoppe's #9 and a toothbrush for the metal. Smells good and won't hurt anything. Finish with a good coat of oil. Some use the finest 0000 steel wool, but I had another say to get a nickeled pad thru Brownells. But remember to above all do no harm...
dju

Funny, I LOVE the smell of Hoppes, takes me back to sitting at the kitchen table after hunting with my dad and grandad cleaning our shotguns. Its like a time machine.

My kids and wife - think its nasty. I always take a big ole whiff when I break it out to start cleaning.

I will search the videos and get smart before I proceed!

Thanks for the feedback.

mrerick · 08-24-2010, 08:37 AM

I'm not sure if it's hard enough to remove rust, but bronze wool (get it at a hardware store) is softer than steel, and might not be as aggressive on the finish.

There is a recent discussion ==> here <== that may be helpful. I've not tried these techniques, but have used a very small tuft of bronze wool dry wrapped around a "Q-Tip". Lightly using this "tool", followed by preservative gun oil (see a discussion on this site's "General Information" page) got me where I needed to go.

Marc

George Anderson · 08-24-2010, 03:51 PM

A wonderful product to remove surface rust without having any effect on the blue is "Nevr Dull" sold in local hardware stores. No fuss, no muss... just results.

tau-delt · 08-24-2010, 06:58 PM

Sir....Thank you for your service.....

Florida Marine · 08-24-2010, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrerick

You didn't post pictures of them, but the barrel serial number stamping should have light "halos" surrounding the digits. This is further evidence that it wasn't refinished. Check the witness mark stamped across the receiver and barrel where they come together. This can provide evidence that they were not separated since being mated at the factory.

Please let us know more as you explore your LP-08!

Marc

I wasn't sure what you were talking about, but under the barrel, they do in fact have "halos" around the 7755, and there is a alignment mark from the barrel to the receiver that lines up perfectly.

So now I will proceed to gently disassemble it and find out what it looks like under the grips. I did find out that my Godfather never fired it. So the last person to clean this was my dad, over 30 years ago.

Would trade this for my dad in a second, but I'll take what I can get!

Thanks again for all your help so far!

Sean

08-22-2010, 08:56 PM	#1
Florida Marine User Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	New to me Arty Luger So my dad died just over two years ago and before he died - he stated he wanted me to get to my God Father to get a arty Luger he had given him years ago (from a stash that will astound and sadden a number of folks...long story for another time). So I got it out of a less then gun friendly state, snuck through a few others back to my current fairly gun friendly state of VA where I am stationed as a LtCol of Marines...but home state is Florida. Has the leather holster, all same serial numbers. Its a 1915, serial number 7755, very small amount of pitting with majority on the back strap, small amount around the trigger and the plate that appears to be a take down on the left side that comes off when you spin the lever in front of the trigger housing (sorry, still learning Lugers - I am more an AR15 guy). I need to give this a good cleaning and I am sure some of the pitting will clean off or become less prominent. Grips are clean, need some oil to make them a little less dry looking, read the sticky on that already - gotta put a Brownells order in. Holster is great condition with two mags. Wouldn't dream of selling it since it was literally one of my dad's dying wishes that I go get it and I am a way out there gun nut, but whats a rough idea what this is worth? Prices in my quick research are all over the place. Also - should I shoot it? Bore and barrel are clean.

08-22-2010, 10:05 PM	#2
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,441 Times in 2,329 Posts	Please post pics... Very difficult to appraise without them... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

08-22-2010, 11:25 PM	#5
Mauser720 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 535 Thanks: 18 Thanked 49 Times in 33 Posts	Florida Marine - The serial number is 7755 and you should see "55" on lots of other parts. Look on the bottom of the two magazines and see what their serial numbers are too. If you see the serial numbers match (7755 plus 55, which is the last two digits of the serial number) then you have a "matching" Luger. And that commands a premium since it means all the parts are original. And if the serial numbers on the two magazines also match, then the pistol will command an additional premium in terms of value. If the pistol is all matching (regardless of the magazines), you might not want to shoot it. The reason for this is that if even one of these matching serial number parts breaks, you will reduce the collector value of the Luger by about half. And they can break, and sometimes they do break too. Of course if you see numbers other than "55" on the numbered parts, it is not a matching Luger, and you are not risking anything by shooting it. You should look for a small gothic letter underneath the full serial number too. So hopefully this answers the "shoot or don't shoot" question; however, as postino has pointed out, pictures are necessary to more accurately assess value. Please be real careful when you remove the left grip, or you may break a chip out of the wood underneath the safety lever. The grips are serially numbered on the inside too. It's best to remove the right grip first. Then remove the left grip screw, and gently lift the grip only very slightly outward at the base and then downward to avoid any pressure on the wood underneath the safety lever. The holster is important too if it is original. If you can, please post a couple pictures of it too. Well, you may be an AR-15 guy, but your M-9 is using the same cartridge as your 1915 Artillery Luger! Neat, huh? __________________ Mauser720 - Ron "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it."

08-23-2010, 08:33 AM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Welcome Marine from a old retired U.S. Army Sergeant... let's see the photos of it as soon as you have a chance. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-23-2010, 03:56 PM	#7
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,907 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,108 Times in 1,509 Posts	Hi Sean, Welcome to the forum and thank you for your service! Ron's advice ("Mauser720") is excellent and based upon quite a bit of experience. A 95 year old firearm will naturally have some subsurface rust (FeO3 form of Iron Oxide) and, in fact, is what collectors look for to verify the age of an original factory rust blued finish like your Arty should have. The areas where oxide is aggressively pitting the surface need to be stabilized, and penetrating oil and gentle q-tip class rubbing can help remove the rust itself. Be careful about going much further without letting members here have a look at pictures... Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

08-22-2010, 11:08 PM	#3
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Generally Artillery Lugers seem to bring over $1500 all the way up to $5k, depending on matching mags, matching stock, complete rig, as well as gun condition. They are good property but we need those photos to be more specific. Welcome. dju

08-22-2010, 11:11 PM	#4
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Also, don't do more than clean it with light oil and a soft cloth until we get a look at it. Read the posts regarding safe cleaning practices, as a wrong move could cost you big time. Hold off shooting it for a while too until we can determine what you have. dju

08-23-2010, 08:40 PM	#8
Florida Marine User Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	OK here we go!

08-23-2010, 08:46 PM	#9
Florida Marine User Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	One magazine is a light silver, one is black... Sadly my Godfather had the one stored in the holster (as was the pistol) and it had some surface rust. I am betting if he didn't store this in the holster it would have less surface issues. The story behind this was my dad had FIVE foot lockers of German weapons when I was a kid, he was cleaning them for the secretary at work (her father was in the OSI and brought them back from WWII). It had every imaginable kind of weapon, arty lugers with the wood case, regular barrel and some snub nose versions. He took several as payment and she sold the remaining for... $500.00. My dad almost had a coronary. He was pretty upset. There were presentation swords, youth knives...it was huge. This was like 1974 or so, but I remember him working on these for a few months every night. Over the years we had to sell several to make ends meet - this is the last one that he gave to my Godfather form some reason (he could not remember and dad is dead...so no telling) I will not sell it. My son will get this and my entire weapons collection when I pass along.

08-23-2010, 09:54 PM	#12
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,907 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,108 Times in 1,509 Posts	From the photos that are in focus, I think it's likely this gun is in original factory finish. The toggle axle retaining pin is still in the white. When you disassemble it, you should find that the frame interior is also in the white (not blued). Same thing with the safety bar that rises up against the sear. The muzzle is also properly in the white. You didn't post pictures of them, but the barrel serial number stamping should have light "halos" surrounding the digits. This is further evidence that it wasn't refinished. Check the witness mark stamped across the receiver and barrel where they come together. This can provide evidence that they were not separated since being mated at the factory. The grips look unusually dry and clean. Thankfully, your left grip is not chipped where it usually happens (near the safety lever at the top rear). Your magazines are not Imperial vintage. They come from the WW-II period in the late 1930s to early 1940s. The active rust corrosion does need to be stabilized, and you probably do need to get a look under the grips. As to removing the FeO3 rust, others probably have better advice than I do. I'm not sure if the rust blued surfaces (which is FeO4 Ferric Oxide) need to be treated differently than the strawed surfaces (trigger) when removing rust. You have a very nice LP-08. The micro adjustable front and rear site are excellent to have. It's difficult to photograph Lugers without a tripod. Most digital cameras allow you to select the major focal point, but everything has to be steady for it to work properly. Even the smallest tripod will help improve your pictures. Please let us know more as you explore your LP-08! Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

08-23-2010, 11:55 PM	#13
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Nice gun. Check youtube for instructions on disassembly. I like Hoppe's #9 and a toothbrush for the metal. Smells good and won't hurt anything. Finish with a good coat of oil. Some use the finest 0000 steel wool, but I had another say to get a nickeled pad thru Brownells. But remember to above all do no harm... dju

08-24-2010, 08:37 AM	#15
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,907 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,108 Times in 1,509 Posts	I'm not sure if it's hard enough to remove rust, but bronze wool (get it at a hardware store) is softer than steel, and might not be as aggressive on the finish. There is a recent discussion ==> here <== that may be helpful. I've not tried these techniques, but have used a very small tuft of bronze wool dry wrapped around a "Q-Tip". Lightly using this "tool", followed by preservative gun oil (see a discussion on this site's "General Information" page) got me where I needed to go. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

08-24-2010, 03:51 PM	#16
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	A wonderful product to remove surface rust without having any effect on the blue is "Nevr Dull" sold in local hardware stores. No fuss, no muss... just results.

08-24-2010, 06:58 PM	#17
tau-delt User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 106 Thanks: 0 Thanked 11 Times in 7 Posts	Sir....Thank you for your service..... __________________ dave