Mexican Drug Cartel Luger

[saab-bob]

Hello Gents
I came across this picture today and thought you gents might find this of interest.
Here is a pic of some pistols confiscated from the Mexican drug cartels.


Can you spot the luger?

Bob

[alvin]

An excellent example of "money does not equal to taste". The middle swastica gun looks like a Luger.

[DavidJayUden]

I always knew the drug guys were bad dudes. But to add a swastika to an over-polished DWM Luger? Bad taste for sure...
dju

[Curly1]

I think bad taste is a requirment to be a drug guy.

[alanint]

Interesting the number of what appear to be post war Walther P1s.

It lends creedence to the idea that many drug cartel guns are sourced from US gun shows.
P1s could be had for as low as $199 for a while, which would make for an ideal "bulk" purchase on a reliable pistol in a decent caliber...
These would go to street level operatives, who are too lowly to have the fancy engraving, gold inlay and mother-of-pearl whatnots that the leaders always seen to have on their personal firearms down there..

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by alanint

Interesting the number of what appear to be post war Walther P1s.

It lends creedence to the idea that many drug cartel guns are sourced from US gun shows.

Curious...My first impression was to think that the bad guys got their guns through surplus sources overseas...I was wondering whether the P1s/P38s were VOPO/Russian surplus...perhaps from their recent friends, the "Russian Mafia"...Russia is supposedly the new frontier for drug sales/distribution...Weapons of all kinds would be a partial payment for supplied drugs...

All depends on your perspective, I guess...I'm sure that journalists of all countries would like to point to the US as the supplier...especially US journalists looking for friends in high gov't offices...

But that's just me, being cynical...

[saab-bob]

Please let me give everybody a little background.
That photo was taken in a warehouse/display area? among literally thousands of guns and weapons. They represented a tiny fraction of the various items confiscated. Mostly the place was packed with full auto AK,M-16,heavy machine guns,grenade launchers,RPG, LAWS rockets,etc,etc. The vast majority of these items are not available in the U.S.,no matter how much money you have.
I do feel bad that the honest folks in Mexico have to live with this situation. Thats what you get when the regular people are disarmed.

Bob

[the gunman]

Any idea why it appears something has been welded to the front of the barrels of the _P-38s

[alanint]

It looks like camera distortion.
While I agree that most heavy weapons for these groups do come from offshore sources and corrupt official interior organizations, many of the daily street level weapons are obtained in the US.
I don't like admitting this as it simply provides fodder for the anti-gunners, but I believe it is true.
When the home grown guerrilla movement sprung up in the Yucatan Peninsula in Mexico about 8-10 years ago, the majority of the weapons displayed during the obligatory media visit to the rebel bases were a hodge-podge of mini 14s, Ruger 10-22s and a whole lot of Stens which were clearly welded together from parts kits.
Not exactly what's available in former Soviet block country warehouses.
Many overestimate the reach and influence of these groups. Does anybody here think they can knock on the Russian Embassy's door, state that they are a rebel or criminal force and arrange to have a boatload of weapons sent to them? For free?

[lugerholsterrepair]

It lends creedence to the idea that many drug cartel guns are sourced from US gun shows.

Pure fantasy. Mexican drug lords are wallowing in US currency they don't even know what to do with. They are not looking for cheap semi auto P1's. They are buying MILITARY full auto weapons.

There are thousands of miles or ungarded Mexican coastline. Guns can be shipped from any number of countries and easily offloaded almost anywhere without notice.

Guns from American gun shows is a false call from the liberal left to point a finger at all lawful US Citizens who attend them.

Jerry Burney

[alanint]

And yet here is a rack of cheap, semi auto P1s confiscated from a Mexican drug cartel..
I grew up in Mexico. I lived there more than 22 years. I have friends there in both the military and law enforcement.

Many of the guns confiscated in Mexico come from the US.........Period........

See my comment about the Yucatan Guerrilla movement.......

[lugerholsterrepair]

Doug, And yet here is a rack of cheap, semi auto P1s confiscated from a Mexican drug cartel..That photo could have come from anywhere.

Do guns bought in the US come into Mexico? Yes..So do cars, washing machines, tv"s etc. But to think the Drug Cartels get their full auto weapons, grenades and rocket launchers from US gun shows is pure stupidity. Your not actually making this argument are you?

I go into Mexico on a weekly basis. Vehicles and their cargos go thru searches, guns are highly illegal in Mexico and penalties are severe. The type of weapons favored by the drug cartels are not available in the USA. They are available in a dozen countries easily landed by ship on any beach in that large country. Just like drugs.

To foster the belief that the weapons in Mexico used to murder thousands every year are to blame on US gun shows... shows just how stupid the US government thinks we are. And that the liberal left will use this to come after law abiding US gun enthusiasts.

Jerry Burney

[alanint]

I am not arguing major military weapons nor cartel drug wars, (where did that come from? we were discussing P38s!).

I am arguing that street level guns, (i.e. the ones that your low life street thug can afford, whether in the pay of the cartels or not) are often sourced from the US, be it gun shows, where a straw purchase by a Mexican immigrant will yield 4-5 times the gun's value south of the border, be it from home or vehicle or gun shop or sporting goods burglaries or the street trade. The very point you make that guns are largely unavailable and highly restricted in Mexico is exactly the point. A market will always find its source. Mexico has a vast source of available weapons just north of its border. I am not pointing a finger at gun shows per se, just the general availability of guns here versus there. To argue that the Mexican land border going either way is highly secure is laughable. It is as porous a border as any in the world. My Mexican Godfather's brothers both work in law enforcement there. I know several Mexican army officers as well. They will all confirm that many of the relatively modern, commercially available pistol, revolver or rifle they confiscate during routine crime prevention will have invariably come from the US.

[lugerholsterrepair]

It lends creedence to the idea that many drug cartel guns are sourced from US gun shows.That was your argument not mine. where did that come from? we were discussing P38s!).




They will all confirm that many of the relatively modern, commercially available pistol, revolver or rifle they confiscate during routine crime prevention will have invariably come from the US.

ALL of the modern guns confiscated in Mexico have to come from somewhere else. They don't make any.

I am just making the point that the drug cartels are NOT being supplied thru US gun shows. That is just so much leftist BS.

Jerry Burney

[alanint]

I would agree with that. I also don't believe the major cartels are frequenting guns shows for supplies.

I do believe that there is a vast number of petty, "normal" criminals, if you will, in Mexico who are not cartel connected nor have their money and influence. These people do source guns from the US on a not insignificant scale. These come from mostly illegal sources and are not bought legally at gun shows or anywhere else. Although I do not totally exclude the gun show route for a certain number of straw purchases. A gun shop right here on US 1 in the Falls area of Miami was shut down a couple of years ago after ATF agents convinced two sales clerks to sell them on a straw basis with the guns going to; you guessed it; Mexico.

I too believe that the liberal argument that criminals are sourcing primarily from Gun Shows or any other legal source is a bunch of politically motivated crap. I'm just pointing out that this IS where most of the guns in this hemisphere are and as such, this is where many lowlifes will come to get them.
Fair and balanced!

[lugerholsterrepair]

Doug, Having lived in a border town for 15 years I agree that many guns are spirited accross the border, bought at gun shows, dealers or private sales. It's inevatable that regular people or even some law enforcement might want a better or more modern gun that is only available in the US.

I think the soloution to the drug trade is not in stopping firearms but either to decriminalize drugs..we have lost that war..or to charge those here in the USA found with Mexican drugs with murder. Two tough choices and feel good fantasy I am afraid because we will undoubtably go on the way we are. Banging out heads against the wall. There is just no stopping the flow of illegal items that bring the kind of money they do. We have tried for Century's with no good result.



Jerry Burney

[alanint]

Yup, no easy answers.

[saab-bob]

Talk about bad taste in guns. Here is my favorite Mexican cartel weapon.
Check out this custom AK.
Bob

[Mauser George]

“I do feel bad that the honest folks in Mexico have to live with this situation. That’s what you get when the regular people are disarmed.”

Bob:

Your statement above could not further from the truth and is 100% incorrect!

With Mexico, as with most Latino Americano countries, the corruption within the government is overwhelming. That is the way of life in these countries. Guns, corruption, theft of everything and anything, drugs & murder is all part of daily activity. The local people in many cases are as guilty as the government.

In countries where firearms are allowed, the situation seems to remain the same. I don’t have any printed statistics, I speak solely based on my experience as I was raised in Puerto Rico.

I have no idea of the current gun control in Mexico or any other South America countries. However doing business in Mexico and knowing some American friends who reside in Mexico who work for American companies, not somewhere this honest person would care to reside for various reasons.

Please don’t misunderstand what I am saving. Latin America is outstanding in every way. The culture, food, people and weather. One just has to come to grips with ones surroundings much the same way and anywhere else where one takes up residency.

Saludos,

Jorge

[saab-bob]

¡Hola Jorge

I grew up and currently live in a area that has a large agricultural industry.Many of these jobs are held by a large number of folks from Mexico, mostly legal and some illegal. I work with some of them and count many as my friends.The vast majority are honest and hardworking. Some of my friends have family in Mexico that are being severely effected by the violence there,both in their businesses and personal safety.

That being said, Mexico does have very restrictive gun laws.

Please read this article by a reliable source.

http://www.davekopel.com/espanol/Mexican-Gun-Laws.htm

My comment was only to give warning as to what might happen in our own USA if we do nothing to stop the erosion of our 2nd amendment rights.

Adiós
Roberto