Opinion on this Luger and it's proof/insp marks

Jasta2 · 02-12-2010, 06:53 PM

[B]Hello,
Intrested in this Luger [http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=157007989 Any imput on it's proofs and inspection marks relating to it's history?http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=157007989

Thanks,Bill/B]

mak · 02-12-2010, 07:49 PM

Looks like British proofed and then sent to Israel.

jonnyc · 02-12-2010, 08:01 PM

Definitely an Israeli proof, but I can't make out the chronology. When was that type of British proof used? I would guess that the Luger would have had to have arrived in Israel pre-1950, as post-1948 the Czech sources of wartime arms were closed and by 1950 Israel would have been concluding arms deals that would not seem to have included 1940 Luger pistols. In addition, Britain was not a major source of arms for pre-state Israel. It is always possible that it was surplused out of Israel and later got a commercial proof in England.
Just some thoughts that revolve around the dating of the British proof marks.

tomaustin · 02-12-2010, 08:22 PM

.........

jonnyc · 02-12-2010, 10:40 PM

Not necessarily, just some more information needed.

Ron Wood · 02-13-2010, 01:22 AM

The crowned circle marks with the letters inside are British (Birmingham proof house) proofs in use since 1925 on arms of foreign make.

jonnyc · 02-13-2010, 03:25 PM

Are there any variations in the Birmingham proofs to determine year or period?

Norme · 02-13-2010, 04:30 PM

Hi, The Birmingham system of proofs is described by Buxton in "The P38 Pistol", Vol. III, page 117. It is extremely complicated. The date code is incorporated in the crossed swords symbol, which is not visible in the pictures this seller has posted. I am posting photos of Birmingham proofs dated 1963 on a 41 42 that i own. Regards

02-12-2010, 06:53 PM	#1
Jasta2 User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lakeland, Fl. Posts: 514 Thanks: 349 Thanked 101 Times in 52 Posts	Opinion on this Luger and it's proof/insp marks [B]Hello, Intrested in this Luger [http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=157007989 Any imput on it's proofs and inspection marks relating to it's history?http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=157007989 Thanks,Bill/B]

02-12-2010, 08:22 PM	#4
tomaustin Lifer X5 Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: texas Posts: 708 Thanks: 87 Thanked 522 Times in 201 Posts	there does seem to be a difference of opinion here folks......... .........

02-13-2010, 01:22 AM	#6
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	The crowned circle marks with the letters inside are British (Birmingham proof house) proofs in use since 1925 on arms of foreign make. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

02-13-2010, 04:30 PM	#8
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,415 Thanks: 225 Thanked 2,594 Times in 931 Posts	Hi, The Birmingham system of proofs is described by Buxton in "The P38 Pistol", Vol. III, page 117. It is extremely complicated. The date code is incorporated in the crossed swords symbol, which is not visible in the pictures this seller has posted. I am posting photos of Birmingham proofs dated 1963 on a 41 42 that i own. Regards Attached Thumbnails

02-12-2010, 07:49 PM	#2
mak User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 22 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Looks like British proofed and then sent to Israel.

02-12-2010, 08:01 PM	#3
jonnyc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 425 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts	Definitely an Israeli proof, but I can't make out the chronology. When was that type of British proof used? I would guess that the Luger would have had to have arrived in Israel pre-1950, as post-1948 the Czech sources of wartime arms were closed and by 1950 Israel would have been concluding arms deals that would not seem to have included 1940 Luger pistols. In addition, Britain was not a major source of arms for pre-state Israel. It is always possible that it was surplused out of Israel and later got a commercial proof in England. Just some thoughts that revolve around the dating of the British proof marks.

02-12-2010, 10:40 PM	#5
jonnyc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 425 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts	Not necessarily, just some more information needed.

02-13-2010, 03:25 PM	#7
jonnyc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 425 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts	Are there any variations in the Birmingham proofs to determine year or period?