1918-1920 DWM condition and value for sale. Need usefull help please!!

[sabrecat]

Hi.

My first post on this site but have many hours of looking and learning. This is a pistol my uncle took of a german in ww2 as the story is past down. It was given to my dad and he has now passed. My mother wants me to sell all the guns and this one seems to be more valuable than all the rest so I want to get a fair price for her and the next owner. It looks to be in good condition and all numbers match except the two clips. One clip has a wooden bottom and the other is aluminum. The holster need the strap sewed back on but did not know if I should have it done or not. the blueing is original and has little wear. Most of the wear is at the end of barrel from being taken in and out of the holster. There is also a tool in the holster along with the extra clip. The barrel looks to be 4 inch. The model # is 4123. I don't know what else to tell you but would be happy to answer all question the best I can. I wish this peice could talk!!

Here are some picture i took and if more are needed let me know.

Thanks
Todd

[alanint]

This is a Police Luger which the experts in that field will be able to tell you more about......

[sabrecat]

more pics

[sabrecat]

To bad you can not post more pics at a time

[lugerholsterrepair]

Todd, What is the chamber date? It appears to be a DWM on the toggle.

As Doug says, it is a Police but converted from a WW1 Military.

The holster is a Police as well. It appears to have either a bullet or shrapnel hole in it. It has already seen some repairs to the belt loops.

Have you taken the pistol apart to determine if the internal parts match?

What is on the bottom of the magazines? Serial numbers? Other stampings?

Is there any marking on the tool?

Jerry Burney

[lugerholsterrepair]

Todd, The chamber date is on top of the chamber..The chamber is where a cartridge would be just befor fireing. Right behind the barrel. There should be a large date there..1916 or some such. Unless it has been removed?
We know it was there at one time because this pistol has military acceptance proofs on the right side of the reciever.

Jerry Burney

[sabrecat]

That picture would not load for me. It has 1918 on it and in front of that it has 1920 in bigger stamping that is not perfect like the 1918. All the parts inside all have the 23 on them and the serial is 4123. one mag have 42 on the aluminum one with a symbol like three lines with the top being longest and the bottom being shortest with the number 655 right below the symbol. the other wooden bottom one has a 2. on the wood with another number 39 also.

Todd

[lugerholsterrepair]

Todd, Your pistol was made in 1918..the 1920 is not a date but a property mark. It has quite a history. A WW1 pistol, after the war, pressed into service during the Weimar Republic era and then converted into a Police pistol and unit marked.
I assume the unit mark is either from the WW1 era or perhaps it is from the Police service it saw. I am no unit mark specialist but one will come along..Ron Smith , Don Maus perhaps George Anderson or Jan Still and explain what that is.
The 2 mags that would have been issued with this originally would have been wood bottomed, marked with the full serial number and the extra would have had a + sign to indicate the spare.
Neither of the mags you have match the pistol as you have said. The mags may have been changed during it's Police service.
Likely aluminum bottoms with the full serial # and a 2 to indicate the spare mag.

Your 42 marked eagle 655 may be an armorers replacement mag.

Jerry Burney

[sabrecat]

Thanks, this is what i hoped would happen with new to me info. I am looking forward to more info from the people you listed hopefully.

Thanks again.

Todd

[Edward Tinker]

As a rig, if all matching, it is worth from about $1100-$1400.


With the holster damaged it brings the value down, but the tool and extra mag help in value.

Welcome to the forum, and you can post up to 10 pictures at once (do five, then five again) per posting....


Ed

[sabrecat]

Thankls for the reply Ed.

I think some of my pictures were to big and it would only take 2 or 3 at a time. Some pics would not load so I think its the size. I am not good at computers either.

Todd

[Ron Wood]

Todd,
Your Luger is marked to the Schutzpolizei of the Kassel district. It is marked in accordance with the 1922 directive when the district was spelled Cassel (hence the S.C. marking). In 1933 the regulations changed the marking to Ka. The "II" indicates a battalion sized unit garrisoned in the city of Hanau in the Kassel district. The "1" that comes next indicates a company sized unit, or "Hundertschaft", within that battalion. The last number, "120", is a property or inventory number. (Information courtesy of "History Writ In Steel" by Don Maus)

[lugerholsterrepair]

Todd..Ron Wood may be good at translating unit marks too! I might as well list everybody but me.

Your holster has a hole in the back..is there one on the inside too?

Does the small tool have any markings?

Nice pistol. What other guns does your Mother have?

Jerry Burney

[sabrecat]

Hi Don.

I need to sell this gun for my mom. What do you think a fair price is. I don't want to exagerate the price because I want it to go. I don't think this gun has been shot since my uncle brought it home after wwII. Also so were should I try to sell it at? Like I said above, I am not into guns that much so any good info would be great.

Thanks
Todd

[Ron Wood]

Todd,
I am afraid that Police Lugers are not my strong suit. You have a nicely marked Luger in excellent condtion. The holster, although slightly damaged isn't too bad either. With the extra magazine and tool, I would think that $1500 for the lot would be in the ballpark. I hope someone with more expertise will chime in here. You can list it here on the forum in the "Lugers and Firearms for Sale" section. Your best bet is to sell it to an individual, preferably a collector. If you sell it to a gunshop or dealer you likely will only get 60 cents on the dollar or thereabouts.

[Edward Tinker]

i did

[Don M]

Todd, this is a nice police rig. Are there any markings on the right rear of the holster? Also, is there a lower-case cursive letter below the serial number on the front of the frame above the trigger guard?

Ron, you have nailed it! It's good to know someone has read HWIS.

[sabrecat]

I looked the holster over good and no extra marking on it. The hole goes thru it and does look to be a bullet hole to me. The serial # in front of the trigger guard has what to me looks like a cursive lower case L. It is also on the barrel below the serial #. Also on the barrel under the serial # and the L were the bearrel starts to flange up to meet the gun body ther is some number stamped into it and they are 38,89. They are very small and look to be stamped free handed. Also the tool has S/42G on it.

Let me know
Todd

[Don M]

Todd, thanks for the additional information. The "l" suffix is actually part of the full serial number. The number on the bottom of the barrel below the suffix is probably 8,89 and may have been double-struck. This is the actual land-to-land barrel bore measurement in mm. The S/42 on the tool indicates it is a later replacement made anytime between 1942 and the day before yesterday.

[sabrecat]

Thanks to all of you.

Great forum because of people like yourselfs.

Todd