to groove or not to groove

kutayhan · 12-18-2009, 04:51 AM

Hi,

There is a belief in my country that, to prevent a break down of the firing pin when shooting, you have to machine/groove it. If you do that, it will just go out of the breech block in a case of high pressure instead of breaking.

So I made some small research in the forum about grooved firing pins and found out that, after some year lugers were all produced with grooved firing pins.

Would you suggest me to machine/groove my firing pin?

Does anyone have grooved firing pin pictures, specs?

thanks, best regards,

Vlim · 12-18-2009, 10:16 AM

Hi,

Although there is a chance that the grooves will prevent the pressure build up getting critical, the 'fix' was not to protect the firing pin from breaking, but the firing pin from getting stuck due to a buildup of dirt in the cavity of the breech block. The grooves (or flutes) help to push away any dirt.

The Finnish army had an interesting 'fix' for the prevention of damage from pierced primers. They drilled a tiny hole in the bottom of the breech block, creating a channel between the firing pin cavity and the outside. Any gases could vent through that hole, reducing damage.

Norme · 12-18-2009, 10:32 AM

I believe Vlim is correct, and that the grooves were to prevent the firing pin from binding due to a build up of powder residue.This probably became an issue with the introduction of steel cased ammunition which did not seal as well as brass. This fix was not new,as you can see from the cylinder pin from a Colt 1851 Navy. Regards, Norm

Vlim · 12-18-2009, 10:43 AM

One aspect that may have had a great influence is that of lubrication.

The original Luger manuals state that for lubrication an acid-free vaseline should be used, and the Swiss held on to their gun grease for quite some time. Nowadays we have excellent gun oils that can withstand temperature extremes and leave very little residue after being applied.

It isn't difficult to assume that the combination of a grease like substance and outdoor use can quickly lead to a situation where the gun parts will stick together like they were glued.

With modern cleaner burning powders, good gun lubrication products and recreational shooting all these risks have been virtually eliminated.

Thor · 12-18-2009, 01:16 PM

most folks that worry about this just get a grooved, WWII type pin and use that one when they shoot and then replace the original pin back in after the shooting/cleaning sessions. Takes about a minute to swap them out.

kutayhan · 12-22-2009, 08:22 AM

thanks for the information.
so it is a good idea to machine it anyway. but how does a grooved firing pin look like. I still could not manage to find a proper picture for the machining process.

jamese · 12-22-2009, 08:39 AM

as Thor stated it best to get a groved firing pin

I will take a photo of a groved pin for you when I get home, if you still would like to machine yours anyway

Vlim · 12-22-2009, 09:08 AM

Yep. Don't put grooves in your own pin, get a replacement one instead.

Messing with the components of a pistol will only lower it's value. Especially if you live in Turkey and happen to have a rare Turkish contract version. (in which case you shouldn't shoot it anyway).

Norme · 12-22-2009, 09:24 AM

I agree with Vlim - don't mess with your firing pin. If you still want to shoot your gun, use brass cased ammunition and clean your firing pin occasionally. Remember, a million P08s went through the Great War without trouble!

12-18-2009, 04:51 AM	#1
kutayhan User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: istanbul Posts: 12 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	to groove or not to groove Hi, There is a belief in my country that, to prevent a break down of the firing pin when shooting, you have to machine/groove it. If you do that, it will just go out of the breech block in a case of high pressure instead of breaking. So I made some small research in the forum about grooved firing pins and found out that, after some year lugers were all produced with grooved firing pins. Would you suggest me to machine/groove my firing pin? Does anyone have grooved firing pin pictures, specs? thanks, best regards,

12-18-2009, 10:32 AM	#3
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	I believe Vlim is correct, and that the grooves were to prevent the firing pin from binding due to a build up of powder residue.This probably became an issue with the introduction of steel cased ammunition which did not seal as well as brass. This fix was not new,as you can see from the cylinder pin from a Colt 1851 Navy. Regards, Norm Attached Thumbnails

12-18-2009, 01:16 PM	#5
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	most folks that worry about this just get a grooved, WWII type pin and use that one when they shoot and then replace the original pin back in after the shooting/cleaning sessions. Takes about a minute to swap them out. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

12-22-2009, 08:39 AM	#7
jamese User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: South Florida Posts: 792 Thanks: 0 Thanked 86 Times in 36 Posts	as Thor stated it best to get a groved firing pin I will take a photo of a groved pin for you when I get home, if you still would like to machine yours anyway __________________ The "truth" is a matter of Perception

12-18-2009, 10:16 AM	#2
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi, Although there is a chance that the grooves will prevent the pressure build up getting critical, the 'fix' was not to protect the firing pin from breaking, but the firing pin from getting stuck due to a buildup of dirt in the cavity of the breech block. The grooves (or flutes) help to push away any dirt. The Finnish army had an interesting 'fix' for the prevention of damage from pierced primers. They drilled a tiny hole in the bottom of the breech block, creating a channel between the firing pin cavity and the outside. Any gases could vent through that hole, reducing damage.

12-18-2009, 10:43 AM	#4
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	One aspect that may have had a great influence is that of lubrication. The original Luger manuals state that for lubrication an acid-free vaseline should be used, and the Swiss held on to their gun grease for quite some time. Nowadays we have excellent gun oils that can withstand temperature extremes and leave very little residue after being applied. It isn't difficult to assume that the combination of a grease like substance and outdoor use can quickly lead to a situation where the gun parts will stick together like they were glued. With modern cleaner burning powders, good gun lubrication products and recreational shooting all these risks have been virtually eliminated.

12-22-2009, 08:22 AM	#6
kutayhan User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: istanbul Posts: 12 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	thanks for the information. so it is a good idea to machine it anyway. but how does a grooved firing pin look like. I still could not manage to find a proper picture for the machining process.

12-22-2009, 09:08 AM	#8
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Yep. Don't put grooves in your own pin, get a replacement one instead. Messing with the components of a pistol will only lower it's value. Especially if you live in Turkey and happen to have a rare Turkish contract version. (in which case you shouldn't shoot it anyway).

12-22-2009, 09:24 AM	#9
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	I agree with Vlim - don't mess with your firing pin. If you still want to shoot your gun, use brass cased ammunition and clean your firing pin occasionally. Remember, a million P08s went through the Great War without trouble!