Gun Show etiquette

Drachenstein · 09-21-2009, 09:05 AM

How many people have issues with a perspective buyer disassembling a piece before purchasing a piece? I mean, one number out of place can change the whole value of the piece. I had a guy look me in the eye and tell me the P38 in my hand was all matching while I’m looking at the barrel, a different number from the frame and slide. Is it too much to ask to check the breech and firing pin on a luger or the locking lug on a P38? Would it be asking too much to have the dealer disassemble?

Frank

FNorm · 09-21-2009, 09:14 AM

Well, I have a dealer here that lets me take a luger all the way down. I have a gun rug, lights, small tools. etc. At first he kept an eye on me until he recognized I could do more than he could. Now I get a chair on the inside of the table and go to work. Looked up one time, and I had an audience. LOL

My pet peeve at gun shows is 'strollers' BAN ALL BABY STROLLERS!!!

FN

Ice · 09-21-2009, 09:19 AM

For semi-autos, I insist on field stripping the gun for a close check before handing over the money. Either the dealer can do it or I can. If the dealer refuses then I won't even consider buying because he is probably trying to hide a problem.

Charlie

lew1 · 09-21-2009, 10:06 AM

One has to remember that there are many jerks out there who have no intention of buying. Some will try to swipte parts. There were a couple of times the person could not put it back together. It is cheaper to go to gun shows than to go to a movie.

So these days, if I do not know you (or someone I know does not know you), I will not let the pistol be taken apart. Rather miss a sale.

lew1 · 09-21-2009, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FNorm

My pet peeve at gun shows is 'strollers' BAN ALL BABY STROLLERS!!!

FN

How about the people coming down the row with chips and nachoes who want to hande pistols with their greasy fingers.

Navy · 09-21-2009, 11:04 AM

As someone who has had a table at gunshows for the past 26 years, I can say with some authority that you see the entire gamut of the human creature at shows.

I guess my "favorite" is the many hundreds of self=proclaimed Luger experts who never hesitate to tell me about one or more pieces on my table. A veritable pot pourri of shimmering ignorance made more excrebable by their absolute certainty that it is gospel truth.

And then there are the folks who have their progeny running and grabbing things off tables while Mom and Dad are busily engaged in doing anything other than supervising the little monsters.

And then there is another category of self-professed expert who proceeds to disassemble a piece without permission while I am tending to another customer. I have had several do this and not be able to re-assemble (almost always a broom handle).

But then again there are some really neat people onemeets, like the elderly gentleman who served with Orde Wingate and the Chindits or the former fellow SF guy who went on the Son Tay raid...very nice and interesting folks.

Draw whatever conclusion you might draw, but after a full day at a show, I am ready for several adult beverages...

Tom A

alanint · 09-21-2009, 12:02 PM

The shows here in South Florida are truly hair raising.
We have the absolute worst of humanity combined with reasonable gun laws.
Some of these types picking up semi AKs, which you just know are headed for a drive-by, look like they just came out of Hollywood's central casting for "gang-banger type"

It ALMOST makes you want to advocate for stricter gun controls......

Drachenstein · 09-21-2009, 01:06 PM

There's goobers on both sides of the tables. I have to do a jewelry trade show twice a year. One is 5 days long the other 13 days. Children are the worst and many parents consider the vendors just entertainment for their devil spawn. Messy fingerprints everywhere or the stuck ring that doesn't want to be purchased. Amazing how many Little Red Clouds are out there. On the other hand I just bought a "matching" G date with matching magazine, get it home to find the firing pin a mismatch.

Well, I got a real nice shooter now. Pissed? You betcha, but I imagine eveyone on this list has been bit once or twice; it was my turn. I think though I'm resolved not to buy anything without a three-day non-firing look-see, and on cash and carry Lugers, not until I see the grips, breech, and firing pin.

Frank

BTW at the end of every Show Day

Edward Tinker · 09-21-2009, 04:21 PM

Frank, I don't consider a mismatched firing pin as a mismatched gun... in the purest sense, sure, but grips and firing pins don't bother me as much as say sideplates and take down levers.

Shoot me a email at weimar_lugers@verizon.net and I'll check my firing pins, I think I have about 15, maybe you'll get lucky. Your firing pin and $20 and its on your way to your house (a 1 out of 100 chance, right?

)

Or, I'll be glad to buy it from you at a shooter price

Ed

alvin · 09-21-2009, 05:49 PM

I keep my mind open.

sheepherder · 09-21-2009, 05:53 PM

I am a member of the ESACA and frequent the Rochester NY shows...and these shows are the only place I have been where muscling through the crowd is not only condoned, it is absolutely necessary...There is just no other way to get through the jams...

But what pisses me off are the goons with a shotgun/rifle over their shoulder with a dowel & sign in the barrel...nothing wrong with that, until they tip the barrel back to where it hits people in the head...

Ron Wood · 09-21-2009, 08:39 PM

I am with Ed, a mis-matched firing pin, holdopen, grips or magazine do not relegate a Luger to shooter status. That is just silly. I am sorry if that offends anyone. I hope Ed scores a bunch at "shooter prices" for just a mis-matched firing pin.

Lugerdoc · 09-22-2009, 11:33 AM

Frank, In your parts wanted ad, you should specify that the FP needed is for a G date, since this would require the early narrow aspect Mauser numbers used on K & G dates, to be correct. TH

Drachenstein · 09-22-2009, 12:11 PM

Thanks Tom, got it taken care of.

Frank

abukafura · 09-22-2009, 04:30 PM

FWIW, I agree with Ed. Shouldn't be too upset (if at all) over a mismatched firing pin, if the rest of the pistol is nice.

alvin · 09-22-2009, 06:55 PM

NRA Grading System defines (1) Factory New; (2) Excellent; (3) Fine; (4) Very Good; (5) Good; (6) Fair; (7) Poor.

The first four grades require "all original parts". Good allows "some minor replacement parts". Minor..... firing pin and grip panels probably qualify. Fair allows major parts replaced. Major.... sear cover, barrel may qualify.

Good could be collectible, depends on variation. Some variations are very rare. Context is important, IMO.

====

Better edit a little bit: The point is simple -- put both variation and condition into consideration. Not all variations are equal, so no single rule applies. I bet that's fair enough.

09-21-2009, 09:05 AM	#1
Drachenstein User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Elizabethtown, KY Posts: 78 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Gun Show etiquette How many people have issues with a perspective buyer disassembling a piece before purchasing a piece? I mean, one number out of place can change the whole value of the piece. I had a guy look me in the eye and tell me the P38 in my hand was all matching while I’m looking at the barrel, a different number from the frame and slide. Is it too much to ask to check the breech and firing pin on a luger or the locking lug on a P38? Would it be asking too much to have the dealer disassemble? Frank

09-21-2009, 10:06 AM	#4
lew1 Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,108 Thanks: 82 Thanked 204 Times in 112 Posts	One has to remember that there are many jerks out there who have no intention of buying. Some will try to swipte parts. There were a couple of times the person could not put it back together. It is cheaper to go to gun shows than to go to a movie. So these days, if I do not know you (or someone I know does not know you), I will not let the pistol be taken apart. Rather miss a sale. __________________ charlie

09-21-2009, 04:21 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,960 Thanks: 2,062 Thanked 4,592 Times in 2,114 Posts	Frank, I don't consider a mismatched firing pin as a mismatched gun... in the purest sense, sure, but grips and firing pins don't bother me as much as say sideplates and take down levers. Shoot me a email at weimar_lugers@verizon.net and I'll check my firing pins, I think I have about 15, maybe you'll get lucky. Your firing pin and $20 and its on your way to your house (a 1 out of 100 chance, right? ) Or, I'll be glad to buy it from you at a shooter price Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-21-2009, 05:49 PM	#10
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	I keep my mind open. Last edited by alvin; 09-21-2009 at 09:26 PM. Reason: Keep an open mind is important.

09-21-2009, 08:39 PM	#12
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,035 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,242 Times in 1,719 Posts	I am with Ed, a mis-matched firing pin, holdopen, grips or magazine do not relegate a Luger to shooter status. That is just silly. I am sorry if that offends anyone. I hope Ed scores a bunch at "shooter prices" for just a mis-matched firing pin. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-21-2009, 09:14 AM	#2
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Well, I have a dealer here that lets me take a luger all the way down. I have a gun rug, lights, small tools. etc. At first he kept an eye on me until he recognized I could do more than he could. Now I get a chair on the inside of the table and go to work. Looked up one time, and I had an audience. LOL My pet peeve at gun shows is 'strollers' BAN ALL BABY STROLLERS!!! FN

09-21-2009, 09:19 AM	#3
Ice User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 552 Thanks: 13 Thanked 69 Times in 57 Posts	For semi-autos, I insist on field stripping the gun for a close check before handing over the money. Either the dealer can do it or I can. If the dealer refuses then I won't even consider buying because he is probably trying to hide a problem. Charlie

09-21-2009, 11:04 AM	#6
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	As someone who has had a table at gunshows for the past 26 years, I can say with some authority that you see the entire gamut of the human creature at shows. I guess my "favorite" is the many hundreds of self=proclaimed Luger experts who never hesitate to tell me about one or more pieces on my table. A veritable pot pourri of shimmering ignorance made more excrebable by their absolute certainty that it is gospel truth. And then there are the folks who have their progeny running and grabbing things off tables while Mom and Dad are busily engaged in doing anything other than supervising the little monsters. And then there is another category of self-professed expert who proceeds to disassemble a piece without permission while I am tending to another customer. I have had several do this and not be able to re-assemble (almost always a broom handle). But then again there are some really neat people onemeets, like the elderly gentleman who served with Orde Wingate and the Chindits or the former fellow SF guy who went on the Son Tay raid...very nice and interesting folks. Draw whatever conclusion you might draw, but after a full day at a show, I am ready for several adult beverages... Tom A

09-21-2009, 12:02 PM	#7
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	The shows here in South Florida are truly hair raising. We have the absolute worst of humanity combined with reasonable gun laws. Some of these types picking up semi AKs, which you just know are headed for a drive-by, look like they just came out of Hollywood's central casting for "gang-banger type" It ALMOST makes you want to advocate for stricter gun controls......

09-21-2009, 01:06 PM	#8
Drachenstein User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Elizabethtown, KY Posts: 78 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	There's goobers on both sides of the tables. I have to do a jewelry trade show twice a year. One is 5 days long the other 13 days. Children are the worst and many parents consider the vendors just entertainment for their devil spawn. Messy fingerprints everywhere or the stuck ring that doesn't want to be purchased. Amazing how many Little Red Clouds are out there. On the other hand I just bought a "matching" G date with matching magazine, get it home to find the firing pin a mismatch. Well, I got a real nice shooter now. Pissed? You betcha, but I imagine eveyone on this list has been bit once or twice; it was my turn. I think though I'm resolved not to buy anything without a three-day non-firing look-see, and on cash and carry Lugers, not until I see the grips, breech, and firing pin. Frank BTW at the end of every Show Day

09-21-2009, 05:53 PM	#11
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,195 Thanks: 1,413 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	I am a member of the ESACA and frequent the Rochester NY shows...and these shows are the only place I have been where muscling through the crowd is not only condoned, it is absolutely necessary...There is just no other way to get through the jams... But what pisses me off are the goons with a shotgun/rifle over their shoulder with a dowel & sign in the barrel...nothing wrong with that, until they tip the barrel back to where it hits people in the head...

09-22-2009, 11:33 AM	#13
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Frank, In your parts wanted ad, you should specify that the FP needed is for a G date, since this would require the early narrow aspect Mauser numbers used on K & G dates, to be correct. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

09-22-2009, 12:11 PM	#14
Drachenstein User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Elizabethtown, KY Posts: 78 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thanks Tom, got it taken care of. Frank

09-22-2009, 04:30 PM	#15
abukafura Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Northeast Wisconsin, near Greeen Bay Posts: 327 Thanks: 1,314 Thanked 90 Times in 57 Posts	FWIW, I agree with Ed. Shouldn't be too upset (if at all) over a mismatched firing pin, if the rest of the pistol is nice.

09-22-2009, 06:55 PM	#16
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	NRA Grading System defines (1) Factory New; (2) Excellent; (3) Fine; (4) Very Good; (5) Good; (6) Fair; (7) Poor. The first four grades require "all original parts". Good allows "some minor replacement parts". Minor..... firing pin and grip panels probably qualify. Fair allows major parts replaced. Major.... sear cover, barrel may qualify. Good could be collectible, depends on variation. Some variations are very rare. Context is important, IMO. ==== Better edit a little bit: The point is simple -- put both variation and condition into consideration. Not all variations are equal, so no single rule applies. I bet that's fair enough. Last edited by alvin; 09-22-2009 at 07:43 PM.