1911 Erfurt Questions

deerhunter71 · 02-16-2009, 01:34 PM

Hello, I am a new member. I have a few questions for the advanced collectors. Does anyone know where these early Erfurts were first issued? The Luger I am interested in has proofs on the right receiver of crown over C, S, R and then the eagle. Of course it is not unit marked on the grip. Is there any way to tell the history of this piece? Maybe what unit used it due to serialization? He is asking $1000 for it and it is all matching including the grips, proofed wooden base mag, and the grip screws are proofed(the hold open was added though). There were supposed to have been only 10,000 made. Surely this piece must be very uncommon if it is all matching and was used through the duration of WWI. I am assuming that this piece was a WWI bring back due to the lack of Weimar or Nazi proofs. Anyway, anything you can tell me will help. I am attaching photos. Thanks.

Edward Tinker · 02-16-2009, 01:57 PM

Welcome to the forum.

What do you mean "where were these first issued" Do youmean what unit, because they were issued to the German Army.

So, I belieive the answer is NO, you can not tell who they were first issued too, although if you have the proper books, you can get an idea of who were first issued lugers, but 1911 erfurts wree not the first units, as DWM made them in 1908, 1909, 1910 and 1911.
Does it have a matching magazine or a erfurt proofed magazine, because it makes a difference in value (although not 50% more as the books state)

Are you buying it as an "invetment' or enjoyment?

Investment, its condition will cause it to rise slowly,and I think (unless the mag matches and is correct) that a $1000 is too much for its condition.... Although like you said, only 10,000 were made that year, that said, I have owned I believe 4 or 5 1911's over the last 8 years, so although uncommon, not rare.

Ed

deerhunter71 · 02-16-2009, 02:27 PM

I have a couple photos of the mag proofs. It looks like a crown U and a crown D are stamped on each side of the mag.

Edward Tinker · 02-16-2009, 04:34 PM

That is an erfurt acceptance marking (proofs are to see if a gun can pass a test such as a firing proof), but many folks will call them "proofs", I do it myself on many occassions, but they are actually acceptance markings

.

Does the magazine match; does it have the same number??

Having a accepted Erfurt magazine is nice, but does not make it much more valuable (negligible I would say).

deerhunter71 · 02-16-2009, 05:09 PM

The mag has no number...It functions flawlessly and the grips are in nice condition.

George Anderson · 02-16-2009, 08:31 PM

With no number that magazine is a treasure.

Vlim · 02-17-2009, 04:35 AM

Yes, sadly because it can be used to make a non-matching Erfurt 'matching' by applying the number....

Recently got an unnumbered Erfurt mag with only one acceptance stamp.

deerhunter71 · 02-17-2009, 03:21 PM

I am glad to hear it is a scarce mag. So how much is it worth? What does that make the value of the pistol with mag? Is $1000 a fair price?

02-16-2009, 01:34 PM	#1
deerhunter71 New User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1911 Erfurt Questions Hello, I am a new member. I have a few questions for the advanced collectors. Does anyone know where these early Erfurts were first issued? The Luger I am interested in has proofs on the right receiver of crown over C, S, R and then the eagle. Of course it is not unit marked on the grip. Is there any way to tell the history of this piece? Maybe what unit used it due to serialization? He is asking $1000 for it and it is all matching including the grips, proofed wooden base mag, and the grip screws are proofed(the hold open was added though). There were supposed to have been only 10,000 made. Surely this piece must be very uncommon if it is all matching and was used through the duration of WWI. I am assuming that this piece was a WWI bring back due to the lack of Weimar or Nazi proofs. Anyway, anything you can tell me will help. I am attaching photos. Thanks. Attached Images

02-16-2009, 01:57 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,962 Thanks: 2,062 Thanked 4,592 Times in 2,114 Posts	Welcome to the forum. What do you mean "where were these first issued" Do youmean what unit, because they were issued to the German Army. So, I belieive the answer is NO, you can not tell who they were first issued too, although if you have the proper books, you can get an idea of who were first issued lugers, but 1911 erfurts wree not the first units, as DWM made them in 1908, 1909, 1910 and 1911. Does it have a matching magazine or a erfurt proofed magazine, because it makes a difference in value (although not 50% more as the books state) Are you buying it as an "invetment' or enjoyment? Investment, its condition will cause it to rise slowly,and I think (unless the mag matches and is correct) that a $1000 is too much for its condition.... Although like you said, only 10,000 were made that year, that said, I have owned I believe 4 or 5 1911's over the last 8 years, so although uncommon, not rare. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-16-2009, 02:27 PM	#3
deerhunter71 New User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Matching mag I have a couple photos of the mag proofs. It looks like a crown U and a crown D are stamped on each side of the mag. Attached Images

02-16-2009, 04:34 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,962 Thanks: 2,062 Thanked 4,592 Times in 2,114 Posts	That is an erfurt acceptance marking (proofs are to see if a gun can pass a test such as a firing proof), but many folks will call them "proofs", I do it myself on many occassions, but they are actually acceptance markings . Does the magazine match; does it have the same number?? Having a accepted Erfurt magazine is nice, but does not make it much more valuable (negligible I would say).

02-16-2009, 05:09 PM	#5
deerhunter71 New User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The mag has no number...It functions flawlessly and the grips are in nice condition.

02-16-2009, 08:31 PM	#6
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	With no number that magazine is a treasure.

02-17-2009, 04:35 AM	#7
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Yes, sadly because it can be used to make a non-matching Erfurt 'matching' by applying the number.... Recently got an unnumbered Erfurt mag with only one acceptance stamp.

02-17-2009, 03:21 PM	#8
deerhunter71 New User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I am glad to hear it is a scarce mag. So how much is it worth? What does that make the value of the pistol with mag? Is $1000 a fair price?