Luger ID

11-09-2001, 11:01 PM

Just found this great site. I'm a shooter who always wanted a Luger, primarily to shoot and enjoy. I just came across one for what might be a good price, but I'm a little wary since I can't shoot it before purchase. The finish is about 85% with holster wear and some pitting on the outside of the barrel. The marks on the top of the gun are that sqiggle type design on page 4 of the logo's. The front marking is a 1915 stamp which I assume to be the year of manufature. All the numbers I could find seem to match. Is this a parts gun? The logo's page doesn't indicate these two marks together. I think I can buy it for under $600 with a holster. I know it's tough from the lack of info, but is that number totally off? Any help is deeply appreciated.

Joe · 11-10-2001, 06:21 PM

The "squiggle" design is the logo for the manufacturer; DWM. This Luger is a 1915 military. If the 4 digit serial numbers on the frame, slide and under the barrel are the same, along with the last two numbers of the serial on each of the small parts, then this weapon is considered to be matched. What is the condition of the holster, is it dated[a good 1935 military holster is worth more than the asking price], any rips in the leather or stiching, missing parts? How is the barrel's boar, worn out or still very visible? Are the wooden grips orginial? Are the grips worn flat? On the front of the grip frame are there any unit markings; ie, numbers with letters? $600 might be a very good price, depending upon the answers to the above.

Joe

11-10-2001, 06:43 PM

Thanks for the help. I didn't get a good look at the holster and am not certain its original. I don't know enough to know all of the locations to look for the serial number but the main number was 748xx and I noted the last 4 digits in various places on the gun. The frame, slide and barrel all had the same number as I recall. The inside of the bore had strong rifling and was dirty with no glaringly obvious pitting. The outside of the barrel did have some pitting. The grips the current owner got with the gun were worn plastic which he still has. The gun currently has a nice set of replacement walnut grips on it. Did not note any unit markings, but I've noted here the huge number of potential marks in the gun. I'm still up in the air as to whether this is a good buy. Any advice?

Dok · 11-10-2001, 09:04 PM

Welcome to The Luger Forum NYer. Like you, I am a shooter, and purchased my first Luger with that in mind. Let me shed some brief light on the whole Luger Collecting picture for you in hopes that it will make your choice easier.

First of, all of the info you've shared with us regarding the condition of this Luger is relavent ONLY if you are buying this Luger as a collectible. Collectors (generally) would not even consider shooting one of their prizes. The value of the Luger is based primarily on three things:

1) The variation (year, model, caliber, manufacturer etc)

2) Matching numbers on all small parts and magazines

3) The condition (% of blue, % of straw, pitting, grips etc)

If all these things rate well, then not only is $600 an excellent price, but probably a lot less than the gun might be worth, and a collector would tell you shouldn't even consider shooting it. If you were to fire it and the firing pin (which would be numbered to the gun) were to get broken, an un-numbered replacement would instantly devalue the gun several hundred dollars.

Now all that said, a "shooter" Luger, is one which does not qualify as a collectible. It may have been previously reworked (refinished), or may have mismatched small part numbers. $600 is a little high for a shooter, but not painfully so, I would gladly pay $600 for a piece of history to shoot. My "shooter" cost me $800 by the time I was finished restoring it... and worth every penny!!!

I think you need to really evaluate why you wamt this Luger, your post indicates that you really want to take this puppy to the range on a regular basis (my kinda guy), if so, there's nothing to stop you buying this one and shooting away... however you should know that an 87 year old weapon will need a bit of work to have it fire reliably, so you will undoubtedly be replacing springs, and possibly other parts once you actually shoot it, and that will alter the collectibility of this piece forever. If you are OK with that, then you could certainly go with this one, although my sense of it is, you might be better off with a mismatched Luger that has no collector value to start with, rather than take a possibly collector grade Luger and devalue it by shooting or restoring it. And if you are ultimately going to invest more money, why not start lower? $600 is a great price for a genuine collectible, but I would try for a lower price for a shooter.

Like you, I always wanted a Luger, but I know I'm not a collector, so I set out to buy a non-collector grade pistol, and shoot the hell out of it. (See my Luger in the Owner's Corner under Dok) Ultimately the choice is yours, but all the markings and matching numbers, and other historical info is really for the collector not the shooter. I hope this helps.

Dok (Webmaster)

11-12-2001, 01:38 AM

Thank you. That was a great analysis which is applicable to alot more than just Lugers. Its hard when the gun is in your hand and the fever hits. I don't know enough to be comfortable chasing a collector piece and I want one to shoot anyway. Maybe I can talk the guy down to a real shooter price.

Thor · 11-12-2001, 01:49 AM

NYer, the gunshop always know "they have me" when I start looking at a gun I want, I start to kinda stutter and get the shakes! It is pitifull!! Thor

Dok · 11-12-2001, 03:36 PM

Re my earlier comments... the trick is knowing whether or not this is a shooter. If it is the guy may well be willing to come down some, and HEY, it's worth a try... but if this is an original unmodified Luger then $600 is a very fair price for a pistol in resonable condition.

If he won't budge from the $600 mark, then you might want to look around for a pistol that is advertised as a shooter (mismatched or reworked) then you will be sure what you are getting.

I can assume from your nick that you are from NY, and I'm not sure what shooter Lugers are going for in that area (they vary from area to area), but on average you should expect to pay $400 - $500 for a shooter in resonable condition. If it has been recently reworked and is in 100% condition, the seller might be asking more, because of the rework costs, not because it has any additional value. A shooter will generally never be more than $700, but that depends on the buyer/seller situation. For instance I wouldn't consider selling mine for less than $800, and there are those who would tell you that for a shooter that's too much to pay.

Here's a suggestion... try him out and see if he'll come down to say $500. If he will, buy it, then have it inspected by a knowledgeable Luger collector. If it turns out to be a collectible... SELL IT (for closer to what's it's worth) and take the money and buy a cheap shooter and have it reworked.

If it turns out NOT to be a collectible, then you got it for a reasonable price. The thought of taking a collectible and turning it into a shooter just because the price is right somehow doesn't feel right.

Dok

11-12-2001, 09:21 PM

Thor, I have the same problem, except I get all excited until the wife belts me across the back of the head! :

This sounds like a nice shooter, but as DOK has said, if it is a collectable (I know a despicable word, until I get a collectable one...) then it is much smarter never to shoot it and again, as DOK said, that is about impossible for some of us! I likes to shoot my guns. Much easier for me to look for combat proven guns, they are cheaper and have history, and I can shoot em.

{note: Nothing against the collecter guys, I just am not there yet. Maybe next year...}

Ed

Bob Egan · 11-13-2001, 11:53 PM

Two Cents. So far I only have three Lugers, all considered collectable, I shoot them all as Mr.Luger intended, so far no broken springs,if anything breaks, I'll replace it, dont care about book value since in NY pistols are very difficult to obtain or sell. The only collectable which I dont shoot is a brand new WW1 .45 which appears mint unfired and I fear that even one round will leave a trace.

11-09-2001, 11:01 PM	#1
NYer Guest Posts: n/a	Luger ID Just found this great site. I'm a shooter who always wanted a Luger, primarily to shoot and enjoy. I just came across one for what might be a good price, but I'm a little wary since I can't shoot it before purchase. The finish is about 85% with holster wear and some pitting on the outside of the barrel. The marks on the top of the gun are that sqiggle type design on page 4 of the logo's. The front marking is a 1915 stamp which I assume to be the year of manufature. All the numbers I could find seem to match. Is this a parts gun? The logo's page doesn't indicate these two marks together. I think I can buy it for under $600 with a holster. I know it's tough from the lack of info, but is that number totally off? Any help is deeply appreciated.

11-10-2001, 06:21 PM	#2
Joe User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 96 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Luger ID The "squiggle" design is the logo for the manufacturer; DWM. This Luger is a 1915 military. If the 4 digit serial numbers on the frame, slide and under the barrel are the same, along with the last two numbers of the serial on each of the small parts, then this weapon is considered to be matched. What is the condition of the holster, is it dated[a good 1935 military holster is worth more than the asking price], any rips in the leather or stiching, missing parts? How is the barrel's boar, worn out or still very visible? Are the wooden grips orginial? Are the grips worn flat? On the front of the grip frame are there any unit markings; ie, numbers with letters? $600 might be a very good price, depending upon the answers to the above. Joe

11-10-2001, 06:43 PM	#3
NYer Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Luger ID Thanks for the help. I didn't get a good look at the holster and am not certain its original. I don't know enough to know all of the locations to look for the serial number but the main number was 748xx and I noted the last 4 digits in various places on the gun. The frame, slide and barrel all had the same number as I recall. The inside of the bore had strong rifling and was dirty with no glaringly obvious pitting. The outside of the barrel did have some pitting. The grips the current owner got with the gun were worn plastic which he still has. The gun currently has a nice set of replacement walnut grips on it. Did not note any unit markings, but I've noted here the huge number of potential marks in the gun. I'm still up in the air as to whether this is a good buy. Any advice?

11-10-2001, 09:04 PM	#4
Dok RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bermuda (Eat Your Heart Out) Posts: 1,626 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Some thoughts (LONG) Welcome to The Luger Forum NYer. Like you, I am a shooter, and purchased my first Luger with that in mind. Let me shed some brief light on the whole Luger Collecting picture for you in hopes that it will make your choice easier. First of, all of the info you've shared with us regarding the condition of this Luger is relavent ONLY if you are buying this Luger as a collectible. Collectors (generally) would not even consider shooting one of their prizes. The value of the Luger is based primarily on three things: 1) The variation (year, model, caliber, manufacturer etc) 2) Matching numbers on all small parts and magazines 3) The condition (% of blue, % of straw, pitting, grips etc) If all these things rate well, then not only is $600 an excellent price, but probably a lot less than the gun might be worth, and a collector would tell you shouldn't even consider shooting it. If you were to fire it and the firing pin (which would be numbered to the gun) were to get broken, an un-numbered replacement would instantly devalue the gun several hundred dollars. Now all that said, a "shooter" Luger, is one which does not qualify as a collectible. It may have been previously reworked (refinished), or may have mismatched small part numbers. $600 is a little high for a shooter, but not painfully so, I would gladly pay $600 for a piece of history to shoot. My "shooter" cost me $800 by the time I was finished restoring it... and worth every penny!!! I think you need to really evaluate why you wamt this Luger, your post indicates that you really want to take this puppy to the range on a regular basis (my kinda guy), if so, there's nothing to stop you buying this one and shooting away... however you should know that an 87 year old weapon will need a bit of work to have it fire reliably, so you will undoubtedly be replacing springs, and possibly other parts once you actually shoot it, and that will alter the collectibility of this piece forever. If you are OK with that, then you could certainly go with this one, although my sense of it is, you might be better off with a mismatched Luger that has no collector value to start with, rather than take a possibly collector grade Luger and devalue it by shooting or restoring it. And if you are ultimately going to invest more money, why not start lower? $600 is a great price for a genuine collectible, but I would try for a lower price for a shooter. Like you, I always wanted a Luger, but I know I'm not a collector, so I set out to buy a non-collector grade pistol, and shoot the hell out of it. (See my Luger in the Owner's Corner under Dok) Ultimately the choice is yours, but all the markings and matching numbers, and other historical info is really for the collector not the shooter. I hope this helps. Dok (Webmaster)

11-12-2001, 01:38 AM	#5
NYer Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Great post Thank you. That was a great analysis which is applicable to alot more than just Lugers. Its hard when the gun is in your hand and the fever hits. I don't know enough to be comfortable chasing a collector piece and I want one to shoot anyway. Maybe I can talk the guy down to a real shooter price.

11-12-2001, 01:49 AM	#6
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Great post NYer, the gunshop always know "they have me" when I start looking at a gun I want, I start to kinda stutter and get the shakes! It is pitifull!! Thor

11-12-2001, 03:36 PM	#7
Dok RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bermuda (Eat Your Heart Out) Posts: 1,626 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Great post Re my earlier comments... the trick is knowing whether or not this is a shooter. If it is the guy may well be willing to come down some, and HEY, it's worth a try... but if this is an original unmodified Luger then $600 is a very fair price for a pistol in resonable condition. If he won't budge from the $600 mark, then you might want to look around for a pistol that is advertised as a shooter (mismatched or reworked) then you will be sure what you are getting. I can assume from your nick that you are from NY, and I'm not sure what shooter Lugers are going for in that area (they vary from area to area), but on average you should expect to pay $400 - $500 for a shooter in resonable condition. If it has been recently reworked and is in 100% condition, the seller might be asking more, because of the rework costs, not because it has any additional value. A shooter will generally never be more than $700, but that depends on the buyer/seller situation. For instance I wouldn't consider selling mine for less than $800, and there are those who would tell you that for a shooter that's too much to pay. Here's a suggestion... try him out and see if he'll come down to say $500. If he will, buy it, then have it inspected by a knowledgeable Luger collector. If it turns out to be a collectible... SELL IT (for closer to what's it's worth) and take the money and buy a cheap shooter and have it reworked. If it turns out NOT to be a collectible, then you got it for a reasonable price. The thought of taking a collectible and turning it into a shooter just because the price is right somehow doesn't feel right. Dok

11-12-2001, 09:21 PM	#8
66mustang Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Great post Thor, I have the same problem, except I get all excited until the wife belts me across the back of the head! : This sounds like a nice shooter, but as DOK has said, if it is a collectable (I know a despicable word, until I get a collectable one...) then it is much smarter never to shoot it and again, as DOK said, that is about impossible for some of us! I likes to shoot my guns. Much easier for me to look for combat proven guns, they are cheaper and have history, and I can shoot em. {note: Nothing against the collecter guys, I just am not there yet. Maybe next year...} Ed

11-13-2001, 11:53 PM	#9
Bob Egan User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 34 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Great post Two Cents. So far I only have three Lugers, all considered collectable, I shoot them all as Mr.Luger intended, so far no broken springs,if anything breaks, I'll replace it, dont care about book value since in NY pistols are very difficult to obtain or sell. The only collectable which I dont shoot is a brand new WW1 .45 which appears mint unfired and I fear that even one round will leave a trace.