Set of Mauser Gauges for Parabellum

mauro · 09-17-2008, 06:25 PM

Hello Friends,
During a recent visit to Oberndorf (see "visit to Oberndorf" in my web site), I had the possibility to buy a set of Mauser Gauges used to inspect the Mauser Parabellum made in the 1970 Ã¢?? 1999 period by Mauser. Initially Mauser bought the gauges used for the inspection of the 1929 Swiss model from Bern. Mauser reused them for inspecting the new production. Not all the Swiss gauges were adequate to inspect the new production and therefore Mauser made new gauges. Hereafter some pictures of the gauges with some examples of the use. These gauges were saved from the destruction by Mr. Otto Repa, responsible of the Mauser Parabellum assembling from 1970 till 1975 and then quality responsible from 1975 till 1979. For the collector, the finding of such gauges is a rare event and could be considered the icing on the cake for any Mauser collector.
I would like to thanks Joop and Gerben for the nice Sathurday passed togheter to investigate the use of the gauges.

More pictures are available on my web site, have a look.

Mauro

John Sabato · 09-17-2008, 06:44 PM

Mauro... a very nice addition to your Mauser collection.

Is this gauge used to measure the frame? or measuring grip panels?

mauro · 09-17-2008, 06:59 PM

John,
I guess this gauge is to verify that the frame shape is correct and it can host the grip. I was not able to verify it because the safety lever needs to be dismounted and I do not want do this.
Thanks,
Mauro

John Sabato · 09-17-2008, 10:17 PM

Mauro, is the gauge dual sided? So it can be used to measure both sides of the frame? If I remember correctly, don't the Mauser grips of this period use pins to secure their position on the frame? Do the holes in this gauge correspond to the holes in the grips?... and are their holes on both sides?

Steinar · 09-18-2008, 03:49 AM

Wow.. very interesting find!
..and it's good to see that it's your hands Mauro, somehow I don't think you will toss it away when cleaning the basement two years from now

Are all parts stamped with 'Mauser'? Do you know how many sets that where made?

mauro · 09-18-2008, 01:57 PM

John,
The grip gauge is not dual sided to me. I guess that the second one is simply missing. The gauges set contains 97 pieces but is not complete.
Hard to say how many gauges were made. You are right, the grips of the 06/73 model have a hole for a pin that goes trough the frame and fix them properly.

Steinar,
Most of the gauges have the Mauser Banner and some of them also the JW mark. All of them have a serial number.
We try to investigate the meaning of the composed serial number. The first part, what I call the "family" indicates most probably the gun for wich they were made. I have two set in my collection, one for the Parabellum and the other one most probably for the carbine model 66.
Then there is another number that indicates for which particular item the gauges are for. For example, all the gauges applicable to the breech block have the same number and so on...
In the picture you can see: 2313 means Parabellum, 2500 breech block and we still don't know the other numbers...

I guess that at least two sets have been produced because I have a couple of double gauges.

We are still investigating the matter and we do not exclude finding more interesting information. If yes, I will share them with the forum.

Have fun,
Mauro

John Sabato · 09-18-2008, 02:18 PM

Thanks Mauro.

There is a barrel thread gauge shown in your photos that is marked:

W 18.5 x 20 Gg

Gut (good)

...and the Mauser trademark

Is this the European metric designation for the barrel/receiver threads used in the 06/73 Mauser? Are they the same as the barrel/receiver threads used in previous Lugers?

Vlim · 09-18-2008, 02:44 PM

John,

The tools are indeed rather elegant good/no good tools. Some show the tolerances (for example + or - 1mm), others don't. Many have the good coded as a yellow color, and the no good side as red.

The L (for example with L52) means "Lehre nr. 52", or "Tool nr. 52". The tools appear to be numbered in groups, attached to certain main parts like Mauro mentioned.

I don't know whether the threading is Euro or US style, but the design of the barrel thread area differs from the pre-1945 design. The newer design allowed for easier placement of the barrel without having to remove material from the shoulder in order to get a good alignment.

The holes in the grip tool do not correspond with the pin holes for the grips, so they seem to have a different purpose.

Augsburger · 09-18-2008, 03:09 PM

Unbelievable Mauro. How do you find this stuff???!!!!

Vlim · 09-18-2008, 04:20 PM

We lead him there

Edward Tinker · 09-18-2008, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by G. van Vlimmeren
We lead him there

thats why we have this network of friends

mauro · 09-19-2008, 12:18 PM

A few months ago, Joop van de Kant, Gerben van Vlimmeren and I decided to visit the city of Oberndorf a.N.

All Luger collectors known that this city is definitely tied to the Mauser family and Company. We had the great opportunity to spend a weekend with the main actors of the Luger reintroduction in the 70th.

Prof Dr Rolf Gminder, former CEO of Mauser Werke (third from the left);

Mr. Otto Repa, responsible of the Mauser Parabellum assembling from 1970 till 1975 and then quality responsible from 1975 till 1979 (first from the left);

Mr. Gerd SchÃ?Â¶n, in charge of the export sales of the civilian market from 1968 till 1971 then domestic sales until 1977 (second from the left).

We discuss with them about all the period of the Luger production in Mauser but more emphasis has been done to their production (1970 Ã¢?? 1986).

For a report of this interesting trip, you can have a look at my web site and then select "Visit to Oberndorf". Have fun...

[list=1][/list=1]

G.T. · 09-19-2008, 01:54 PM

Who are the other three characters,

???? I'd like to put names to faces..best to all, til...lat'r...GT Which one is Joop?!

Ron Smith · 09-19-2008, 02:50 PM

G.T.,

L to R Mauro, Gerben and Joop on the right side.

G.T. · 09-19-2008, 02:58 PM

My extended greetings to you all, I wish I was the seventh person in that photo, as it would be a dream come true to rub shoulders with all of the above... What a great experience, I'm sure one you will not soon forget... best to all, til....lat'r....GT

Edward Tinker · 09-19-2008, 03:49 PM

We have to all make Chattanooga NAPCA next year, many of the folks from the forums have made it (I missed it this year) and Joop makes it which has been so nice meeting him in person; I'd like to meet all and especially Gerben (we've known each other for so long

)

Ed

Vlim · 09-19-2008, 06:35 PM

The last photograph was taken in the Oberndorf weapons museum. It's housed on the second floor of a former Mauser building, the so-called 'Schwedenbau' (Sweden Building), that was erected to facilitate work on the Swedish rifle contracts at the turn of the century. The attick of this building was used to assemble the C96 pistol.

The museum itself is not very large, but the sheer volume of history and atmosphere certainly make up for the lack of size. We spotted a number of interesting guns, several rare prototypes and an example of the Mauser car.

It was also very interesting to find out that the part of the complex where the Parabellum was assembled is still standing today. It did survive the French destruction in 1948.

So for anyone who has a chance to visit the little town, make sure you visit the Oberndorf town and weapons museum!

09-17-2008, 06:25 PM	#1
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 350 Times in 129 Posts	Set of Mauser Gauges for Parabellum Hello Friends, During a recent visit to Oberndorf (see "visit to Oberndorf" in my web site), I had the possibility to buy a set of Mauser Gauges used to inspect the Mauser Parabellum made in the 1970 Ã¢?? 1999 period by Mauser. Initially Mauser bought the gauges used for the inspection of the 1929 Swiss model from Bern. Mauser reused them for inspecting the new production. Not all the Swiss gauges were adequate to inspect the new production and therefore Mauser made new gauges. Hereafter some pictures of the gauges with some examples of the use. These gauges were saved from the destruction by Mr. Otto Repa, responsible of the Mauser Parabellum assembling from 1970 till 1975 and then quality responsible from 1975 till 1979. For the collector, the finding of such gauges is a rare event and could be considered the icing on the cake for any Mauser collector. I would like to thanks Joop and Gerben for the nice Sathurday passed togheter to investigate the use of the gauges. More pictures are available on my web site, have a look. Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

09-17-2008, 06:44 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,309 Times in 1,098 Posts	Mauro... a very nice addition to your Mauser collection. Is this gauge used to measure the frame? or measuring grip panels? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-17-2008, 06:59 PM	#3
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 350 Times in 129 Posts	John, I guess this gauge is to verify that the frame shape is correct and it can host the grip. I was not able to verify it because the safety lever needs to be dismounted and I do not want do this. Thanks, Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

09-17-2008, 10:17 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,309 Times in 1,098 Posts	Mauro, is the gauge dual sided? So it can be used to measure both sides of the frame? If I remember correctly, don't the Mauser grips of this period use pins to secure their position on the frame? Do the holes in this gauge correspond to the holes in the grips?... and are their holes on both sides? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-18-2008, 03:49 AM	#5
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	Wow.. very interesting find! ..and it's good to see that it's your hands Mauro, somehow I don't think you will toss it away when cleaning the basement two years from now Are all parts stamped with 'Mauser'? Do you know how many sets that where made? __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

09-18-2008, 01:57 PM	#6
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 350 Times in 129 Posts	John, The grip gauge is not dual sided to me. I guess that the second one is simply missing. The gauges set contains 97 pieces but is not complete. Hard to say how many gauges were made. You are right, the grips of the 06/73 model have a hole for a pin that goes trough the frame and fix them properly. Steinar, Most of the gauges have the Mauser Banner and some of them also the JW mark. All of them have a serial number. We try to investigate the meaning of the composed serial number. The first part, what I call the "family" indicates most probably the gun for wich they were made. I have two set in my collection, one for the Parabellum and the other one most probably for the carbine model 66. Then there is another number that indicates for which particular item the gauges are for. For example, all the gauges applicable to the breech block have the same number and so on... In the picture you can see: 2313 means Parabellum, 2500 breech block and we still don't know the other numbers... I guess that at least two sets have been produced because I have a couple of double gauges. We are still investigating the matter and we do not exclude finding more interesting information. If yes, I will share them with the forum. Have fun, Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

09-18-2008, 02:18 PM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,309 Times in 1,098 Posts	Thanks Mauro. There is a barrel thread gauge shown in your photos that is marked: W 18.5 x 20 Gg Gut (good) ...and the Mauser trademark Is this the European metric designation for the barrel/receiver threads used in the 06/73 Mauser? Are they the same as the barrel/receiver threads used in previous Lugers? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-18-2008, 02:44 PM	#8
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,991 Times in 1,205 Posts	John, The tools are indeed rather elegant good/no good tools. Some show the tolerances (for example + or - 1mm), others don't. Many have the good coded as a yellow color, and the no good side as red. The L (for example with L52) means "Lehre nr. 52", or "Tool nr. 52". The tools appear to be numbered in groups, attached to certain main parts like Mauro mentioned. I don't know whether the threading is Euro or US style, but the design of the barrel thread area differs from the pre-1945 design. The newer design allowed for easier placement of the barrel without having to remove material from the shoulder in order to get a good alignment. The holes in the grip tool do not correspond with the pin holes for the grips, so they seem to have a different purpose.

09-18-2008, 03:09 PM	#9
Augsburger User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Tejas Posts: 160 Thanks: 17 Thanked 14 Times in 5 Posts	Unbelievable Mauro. How do you find this stuff???!!!! __________________ Wilder Eber

09-18-2008, 04:20 PM	#10
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,991 Times in 1,205 Posts	We lead him there

09-19-2008, 12:18 PM	#12
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 350 Times in 129 Posts	A few months ago, Joop van de Kant, Gerben van Vlimmeren and I decided to visit the city of Oberndorf a.N. All Luger collectors known that this city is definitely tied to the Mauser family and Company. We had the great opportunity to spend a weekend with the main actors of the Luger reintroduction in the 70th. Prof Dr Rolf Gminder, former CEO of Mauser Werke (third from the left); Mr. Otto Repa, responsible of the Mauser Parabellum assembling from 1970 till 1975 and then quality responsible from 1975 till 1979 (first from the left); Mr. Gerd SchÃ?Â¶n, in charge of the export sales of the civilian market from 1968 till 1971 then domestic sales until 1977 (second from the left). We discuss with them about all the period of the Luger production in Mauser but more emphasis has been done to their production (1970 Ã¢?? 1986). For a report of this interesting trip, you can have a look at my web site and then select "Visit to Oberndorf". Have fun... [list=1][/list=1] __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

09-19-2008, 01:54 PM	#13
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,541 Thanks: 1,342 Thanked 3,742 Times in 1,020 Posts	4th, 5th, 6th from left.... Who are the other three characters, ???? I'd like to put names to faces..best to all, til...lat'r...GT Which one is Joop?!

09-19-2008, 02:50 PM	#14
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	G.T., L to R Mauro, Gerben and Joop on the right side. __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

09-19-2008, 02:58 PM	#15
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,541 Thanks: 1,342 Thanked 3,742 Times in 1,020 Posts	excellent adventure... My extended greetings to you all, I wish I was the seventh person in that photo, as it would be a dream come true to rub shoulders with all of the above... What a great experience, I'm sure one you will not soon forget... best to all, til....lat'r....GT

09-19-2008, 03:49 PM	#16
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,974 Thanks: 2,072 Thanked 4,609 Times in 2,123 Posts	We have to all make Chattanooga NAPCA next year, many of the folks from the forums have made it (I missed it this year) and Joop makes it which has been so nice meeting him in person; I'd like to meet all and especially Gerben (we've known each other for so long ) Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-19-2008, 06:35 PM	#17
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,991 Times in 1,205 Posts	The last photograph was taken in the Oberndorf weapons museum. It's housed on the second floor of a former Mauser building, the so-called 'Schwedenbau' (Sweden Building), that was erected to facilitate work on the Swedish rifle contracts at the turn of the century. The attick of this building was used to assemble the C96 pistol. The museum itself is not very large, but the sheer volume of history and atmosphere certainly make up for the lack of size. We spotted a number of interesting guns, several rare prototypes and an example of the Mauser car. It was also very interesting to find out that the part of the complex where the Parabellum was assembled is still standing today. It did survive the French destruction in 1948. So for anyone who has a chance to visit the little town, make sure you visit the Oberndorf town and weapons museum!