1912 Erfurt #4458

HH · 07-16-2008, 06:17 PM

I need some expert help. I was given a 1912/1920 double numbered Erfurt, serial # 4458. All of the numbers match except the clip. It appears to be in good condition. It came with holster and take down tool. The giver said her father brought it back from the war and promised to locate his service information. I purchased and read Ã¢??The Lugar BookÃ¢?Â and am still unsure of the history of the handgun. I would appreciate any and all information you can provide and direction to helpful books. To further demonstrate my ignorance, underneath the barrel at the receiver is stamped 8.82. Is that the 9 millimeter designation? I would have attached photographs but don't know how.

Mauser720 · 07-16-2008, 07:55 PM

HH -

If you were "given" this Luger then you are fortunate indeed.

Erfurt was a Prussian government-owned arms factory.

At the time your Luger was made (1912), they were not putting stock lugs on the rear grip strap and it did not originally have a "hold open" either. However, in mid-1913 they did start to retrofit them with a "hold open".

Some refer to your Luger as a "double date" Luger; however, the "1920" is not a date. After the Great War, there was a lot of chaos in the country. There was an effort to mark Lugers to show which ones belonged to the government. And this "1920" was applied to identify your Luger as belonging to the government. So it is a property mark, and not a date.

One of the results of having lost the was was that Erfurt ceased to function as a producer of military arms. During the Great War, they had also made Mauser model 98 rifles and carbines among other things.

The magazine for your Luger should have a wood bottom. If all the numbers match except for the magazine then you are fortunate. You will see other threads on this Forum about whether to shoot a Luger. The main reason some collectors avoid shooting an all matching Luger is that if you break a part it will drastically reduce the collector value of the gun. And parts do break too. You've got a 96 year old piece of German engineering in your hands.

Yes, the 8,82 represents the bore diameter. Specifically, it refers to the distance between the lands in millimeters.

I suggest you try to post some pictures of your Luger, plus the holster, plus the tool. If the holster is original to the piece, and if the tool is proper, then it will be a very desirable collector's item.

On the back of the holster there may (should) be some markings. Others on this Forum can provide you with more information if you will please keep trying to post some photographs. Someone will help you. It took me awhile to figure it out too.

Congratulations.

Mauser720 - Ron

wlyon · 07-16-2008, 08:01 PM

HH Also check the inside flap of the holster for marking. Bill

HH · 07-16-2008, 10:17 PM

Ron, thank you for the valuable information. The bottom of the magazine is wood. It is inscribed with # 5102 and lower case letter a and a +. I can find no discernable markings on the holster, front, back, or inside. It is a bit worn. The cap strap is torn part way through at a buckle hole. There is some light flaking on the cap sholders and on the magazine holder. There is no marking on the tool. I will photograph the holster and the tool and try to post.

HH · 07-17-2008, 07:47 PM

Bill,
I have examined the holster inside and out. The only marking I find is on one of the belt loops. ItÃ¢??s not distinct and I canÃ¢??t determine if it is a stamp or a wear mark. There is a second pocket stitched to the magazine pocket. It is narrow and runs the length of the mag pocket. There is also a strap stitched to the inside back of the holster that is approximately 7/16Ã¢?Â wide and 5Ã¢?Â long. There is stitching at the outward end of the strap but whatever was stitched there is gone. There is a slot in the front of the holster that appears to be for the strap. Does this tell you anything? Sorry I havenÃ¢??t been able to master attaching a photo. Someplace in Pistole server there may be 5 of my photographs.

John Sabato · 07-18-2008, 09:07 AM

Once you upload a photograph, you must copy the URL for where it went from the upload success screen and use it in your posting for anyone to have access to view it. There is a photo tutorial as a sticky in the New Collector forum.

07-16-2008, 06:17 PM	#1
HH User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: South Orange County, CA Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1912 Erfurt #4458 I need some expert help. I was given a 1912/1920 double numbered Erfurt, serial # 4458. All of the numbers match except the clip. It appears to be in good condition. It came with holster and take down tool. The giver said her father brought it back from the war and promised to locate his service information. I purchased and read Ã¢??The Lugar BookÃ¢?Â and am still unsure of the history of the handgun. I would appreciate any and all information you can provide and direction to helpful books. To further demonstrate my ignorance, underneath the barrel at the receiver is stamped 8.82. Is that the 9 millimeter designation? I would have attached photographs but don't know how.

07-16-2008, 07:55 PM	#2
Mauser720 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 535 Thanks: 18 Thanked 49 Times in 33 Posts	HH - If you were "given" this Luger then you are fortunate indeed. Erfurt was a Prussian government-owned arms factory. At the time your Luger was made (1912), they were not putting stock lugs on the rear grip strap and it did not originally have a "hold open" either. However, in mid-1913 they did start to retrofit them with a "hold open". Some refer to your Luger as a "double date" Luger; however, the "1920" is not a date. After the Great War, there was a lot of chaos in the country. There was an effort to mark Lugers to show which ones belonged to the government. And this "1920" was applied to identify your Luger as belonging to the government. So it is a property mark, and not a date. One of the results of having lost the was was that Erfurt ceased to function as a producer of military arms. During the Great War, they had also made Mauser model 98 rifles and carbines among other things. The magazine for your Luger should have a wood bottom. If all the numbers match except for the magazine then you are fortunate. You will see other threads on this Forum about whether to shoot a Luger. The main reason some collectors avoid shooting an all matching Luger is that if you break a part it will drastically reduce the collector value of the gun. And parts do break too. You've got a 96 year old piece of German engineering in your hands. Yes, the 8,82 represents the bore diameter. Specifically, it refers to the distance between the lands in millimeters. I suggest you try to post some pictures of your Luger, plus the holster, plus the tool. If the holster is original to the piece, and if the tool is proper, then it will be a very desirable collector's item. On the back of the holster there may (should) be some markings. Others on this Forum can provide you with more information if you will please keep trying to post some photographs. Someone will help you. It took me awhile to figure it out too. Congratulations. Mauser720 - Ron __________________ Mauser720 - Ron "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it."

07-16-2008, 08:01 PM	#3
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,619 Thanks: 3,144 Thanked 2,530 Times in 943 Posts	HH Also check the inside flap of the holster for marking. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

07-18-2008, 09:07 AM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Once you upload a photograph, you must copy the URL for where it went from the upload success screen and use it in your posting for anyone to have access to view it. There is a photo tutorial as a sticky in the New Collector forum. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-16-2008, 10:17 PM	#4
HH User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: South Orange County, CA Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ron, thank you for the valuable information. The bottom of the magazine is wood. It is inscribed with # 5102 and lower case letter a and a +. I can find no discernable markings on the holster, front, back, or inside. It is a bit worn. The cap strap is torn part way through at a buckle hole. There is some light flaking on the cap sholders and on the magazine holder. There is no marking on the tool. I will photograph the holster and the tool and try to post.

07-17-2008, 07:47 PM	#5
HH User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: South Orange County, CA Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Bill, I have examined the holster inside and out. The only marking I find is on one of the belt loops. ItÃ¢??s not distinct and I canÃ¢??t determine if it is a stamp or a wear mark. There is a second pocket stitched to the magazine pocket. It is narrow and runs the length of the mag pocket. There is also a strap stitched to the inside back of the holster that is approximately 7/16Ã¢?Â wide and 5Ã¢?Â long. There is stitching at the outward end of the strap but whatever was stitched there is gone. There is a slot in the front of the holster that appears to be for the strap. Does this tell you anything? Sorry I havenÃ¢??t been able to master attaching a photo. Someplace in Pistole server there may be 5 of my photographs.