Please Help

Meridius · 05-06-2008, 09:19 PM

Hello, my first two lugers arrived today and I need help verifying a few things before the three day inspection is over. The first one is an all matching 1915. The finish looks original but the tooling marks at the rear of the frame appear linear as opposed to circular like I have seen in photos. Please help me verify whether or not the finish is original. There are proper halos under barrel and toggle serial numbers.

Meridius · 05-06-2008, 09:20 PM

right side

Meridius · 05-06-2008, 09:21 PM

top

Meridius · 05-06-2008, 09:21 PM

dwm's

Meridius · 05-06-2008, 09:31 PM

Now the second luger. This one is a blank chamber DWM that I bought as a shooter. The top half is matching to itself while the bottom frame assembly matches itself. On top of the barrel (not the receiver) the number 1928 is stamped in a small font. Is this a rework from the 20's or is it a recently assembled parts gun? It is reblued but I'm not sure when or what kind of bluing it is. What is this thing??

Meridius · 05-06-2008, 09:32 PM

What is this marking?

drbuster · 05-06-2008, 09:46 PM

The proof resembles the Queen Wilhelmina proof placed on Dutch lugers. That would seem to indicate that the frame at least is Dutch.

paradox998 · 05-06-2008, 09:48 PM

Hi Meridius:

The bluing on the first piece looks good to me. I will be interested to see other's opinions. The milling marks are still clear and this would suggest that the gun has not been buffed. Also it looks like some appropriate wear on the rail above the right grip. On the second luger, I checked Costanzo and could not find the unusual proof mark. Good luck

Hal

Dwight Gruber · 05-06-2008, 10:14 PM

Max,

From your pictures, nothing looks particularly untoward about the 1915. There is sufficient variation in manufacture of these guns that the machining of the frame ears presented here is not worrisome in the absence of other real problems. To do a real analysis by photograph, you would need to present a much more comprehensive selection of markings and other characteristics, properly exposed and color balanced. If the halos satisfy you, thats more than we can tell you.

The second gun is much easier. As you suggest, it is a put-together parts gun. The barrelled receiver is from a Dutch Luger. The crown/W on the left side is the Dutch acceptance mark, signifying Queen Wilhelmina of Holland. The date on the top of the barrel is the year the barrel was replaced by the Dutch military armory in Indonesia, a common and frequent modification. Take a look at the marking on the extractor; if it says GELADEN on both sides it--and likely the breechblock, if not the entire toggle train--is from a Dutch Luger as well.

There is not much to say about the frame from your photographs. It appears that there is a letter suffix on the frame front under the serial number; this is an indication that the frame is not Dutch, as Dutch Lugers did not have serial number suffixes.

--Dwight

Meridius · 05-07-2008, 06:25 PM

Yep it says Geladen on both sides. So I guess the top is Dutch and the bottom is of WWII manufacture. Thanks for the info!

One last question for my shooter luger. There is a bulge on the left rear ear. Is this reason for concern?

Meridius · 05-07-2008, 06:29 PM

Here is a picture:

Meridius · 05-07-2008, 06:31 PM

Another angle:

Dwight Gruber · 05-07-2008, 11:32 PM

Max,

The "bulge" on the toggle release ramp is a result of repeated impact of the toggle knobs, and indicates that the frame has seen lots of use. It is of no particular concern.

In the photo it is possible to see a Mauser "hump", the slight extension at the top-rear of the frame. This is characteristic of Mauser production from mid-1937 to 1942. Is the left frame panel stamped P.08? If so, it was manufactured 1941-1942; if not, 1937-1940.

--Dwight

alvin · 05-08-2008, 07:01 PM

Great 1915 !

One possible trap.... highly unlikely on this one, but I saw at local dealers recently..... is erased importer mark. Or, forced matching (especially on the magazine and sear cover). Finish is not the only trap.

Meridius · 05-08-2008, 08:20 PM

Thanks for all the help on these!

05-06-2008, 09:19 PM	#1
Meridius User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 38 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Please Help Hello, my first two lugers arrived today and I need help verifying a few things before the three day inspection is over. The first one is an all matching 1915. The finish looks original but the tooling marks at the rear of the frame appear linear as opposed to circular like I have seen in photos. Please help me verify whether or not the finish is original. There are proper halos under barrel and toggle serial numbers. Attached Thumbnails

05-06-2008, 09:20 PM	#2
Meridius User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 38 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	right side Attached Thumbnails

05-06-2008, 09:21 PM	#3
Meridius User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 38 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	top Attached Thumbnails

05-06-2008, 09:21 PM	#4
Meridius User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 38 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	dwm's Attached Thumbnails

05-06-2008, 09:31 PM	#5
Meridius User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 38 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Now the second luger. This one is a blank chamber DWM that I bought as a shooter. The top half is matching to itself while the bottom frame assembly matches itself. On top of the barrel (not the receiver) the number 1928 is stamped in a small font. Is this a rework from the 20's or is it a recently assembled parts gun? It is reblued but I'm not sure when or what kind of bluing it is. What is this thing?? Attached Thumbnails

05-06-2008, 09:32 PM	#6
Meridius User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 38 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	What is this marking? Attached Thumbnails

05-06-2008, 09:46 PM	#7
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	The proof resembles the Queen Wilhelmina proof placed on Dutch lugers. That would seem to indicate that the frame at least is Dutch.

05-06-2008, 09:48 PM	#8
paradox998 User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: South Florida Posts: 105 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Meridius: The bluing on the first piece looks good to me. I will be interested to see other's opinions. The milling marks are still clear and this would suggest that the gun has not been buffed. Also it looks like some appropriate wear on the rail above the right grip. On the second luger, I checked Costanzo and could not find the unusual proof mark. Good luck Hal

05-06-2008, 10:14 PM	#9
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Max, From your pictures, nothing looks particularly untoward about the 1915. There is sufficient variation in manufacture of these guns that the machining of the frame ears presented here is not worrisome in the absence of other real problems. To do a real analysis by photograph, you would need to present a much more comprehensive selection of markings and other characteristics, properly exposed and color balanced. If the halos satisfy you, thats more than we can tell you. The second gun is much easier. As you suggest, it is a put-together parts gun. The barrelled receiver is from a Dutch Luger. The crown/W on the left side is the Dutch acceptance mark, signifying Queen Wilhelmina of Holland. The date on the top of the barrel is the year the barrel was replaced by the Dutch military armory in Indonesia, a common and frequent modification. Take a look at the marking on the extractor; if it says GELADEN on both sides it--and likely the breechblock, if not the entire toggle train--is from a Dutch Luger as well. There is not much to say about the frame from your photographs. It appears that there is a letter suffix on the frame front under the serial number; this is an indication that the frame is not Dutch, as Dutch Lugers did not have serial number suffixes. --Dwight

05-07-2008, 06:25 PM	#10
Meridius User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 38 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yep it says Geladen on both sides. So I guess the top is Dutch and the bottom is of WWII manufacture. Thanks for the info! One last question for my shooter luger. There is a bulge on the left rear ear. Is this reason for concern?

05-07-2008, 06:29 PM	#11
Meridius User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 38 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here is a picture: Attached Thumbnails

05-07-2008, 06:31 PM	#12
Meridius User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 38 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Another angle: Attached Thumbnails

05-07-2008, 11:32 PM	#13
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Max, The "bulge" on the toggle release ramp is a result of repeated impact of the toggle knobs, and indicates that the frame has seen lots of use. It is of no particular concern. In the photo it is possible to see a Mauser "hump", the slight extension at the top-rear of the frame. This is characteristic of Mauser production from mid-1937 to 1942. Is the left frame panel stamped P.08? If so, it was manufactured 1941-1942; if not, 1937-1940. --Dwight

05-08-2008, 07:01 PM	#14
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Great 1915 ! One possible trap.... highly unlikely on this one, but I saw at local dealers recently..... is erased importer mark. Or, forced matching (especially on the magazine and sear cover). Finish is not the only trap.

05-08-2008, 08:20 PM	#15
Meridius User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 38 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for all the help on these!