WW ll Ammo

dhusker · 04-03-2008, 06:31 PM

I just purchased this box of 9mm ammo.....can anyone help me with a translation of the print on the box? I did figure out the word Pistolenpatronen.

Vlim · 04-03-2008, 07:47 PM

Hi,

16 Pistol cartridges with iron core.

The steel cases (st+) were made in 1943. The package appears to have been repackaged/relabeled in 1944.

If you can provide a clearer view of the 3-letter abbreviations we can probably tell you who made the components as well.

Basically the label shows:
-What type of rounds they are (in this case steel cases with a bullet with an iron core).
-Who made the separate components (case, round, primer).
-Who put all the stuff together.

I can make out MOG and DNF:
MOG = Deutsche Sprengchemie, Moschweig
DNF = RWS, Durlach Plant.

Nz.Stb.P. 08-08 stands for 'Nitrozellulose Stabchenpulver neuer Art' or 'Nitrocellulose powder, new version', a nitrocellulose powder which came in small rods, rather than the normal powder design. it's also shown in the sectioned view on the left (much coarser in shape than the powder on the right). The 08 - 08 represents the size of the grains, 0.8 mm in diameter and 0.8 mm long. 43/21 is lot number 21, made in 1943.

The package is filled with the cartridge shown on the left, the steel cased 'Pistolenpatrone 08 m.E. (mit Eisenkern, with iron core). The cartridge on the right is the 'Pistolenpatrone 08 S.E. (Sintereisen, sintered steel).

dhusker · 04-03-2008, 08:03 PM

Thank you for all the great info.......it is more than I hoped for. I have the opportunity to buy more at the same price. Is this ammo rare or is it easy to find?

Vlim · 04-03-2008, 08:23 PM

Hi,

No problem, it's one of the few items I can handle over here without too much problems. The ammo is not getting cheaper, but there is still plenty around, sometimes even complete packing cases show up from old arsenal supplies. The quality is of such a nature that shooting it is a good way to ruin a perfectly good barrel pretty quickly, so it's strictly collecting ammo only, this stuff.

I wouldn't pay top dollar for it, but if you can get some at a decent price it's always nice to have. And the large amount of suppliers and manufacturers makes it a collecting area in itself.

I'm picking up part of a collection myself in a few weeks that consists of a little over 100 separate WW2 rounds so that will keep me busy for a while as well

The WW1 era ammunition is more expensive, less boxes survived and less ammo survived. Especially the early DWM ammunition, with the trapezoid bullet, in original packing is hard to come by.

Vlim · 04-04-2008, 04:10 PM

Tac,

A tragic waste. As with virtually everything, we need a separate collecting permit in order to keep live small arms ammunition (larger calibers are subject to permits as well, but must be completely inert). Membership of a cartridge collector's association is required.

There should be a cartridge collector's club, associated with the ECRA in the UK, but they appear to have not discovered the internet yet...

the gunman · 04-04-2008, 05:57 PM

What a shame Tac hate to tell you what they are worth now. I have been looking for some unopened boxes for years.

A.Mifsin · 04-05-2008, 02:17 AM

Hi Gerben, the bullet on the right side the one with a flat nose, is it a pre 1945 round?
Alf

Vlim · 04-05-2008, 02:54 PM

Alf,

Worse, it's pre-1916.

The original P08 bullet had this truncated cone design. It was changed over to the ogival shape somewhere in 1916. The trommel magazines had feeding problems with the flat nose design.

The conical round on the right is from 1917.

This image shows the headstamps of both rounds, made by DWM:

Left: The flat nose, 1915.
Right: The conical version, 1917.

Steinar · 04-05-2008, 04:23 PM

Gerben, this shape.. do you know if it has been 'reproduced' in more lately produced ammunition by DWM? In the past, I have spent over a hundred flat nose bullets like that. I beleve they where produced by DWM as well.. just hope it wasn't ww1 ammo I wasted

A.Mifsin · 04-05-2008, 05:33 PM

Wow, that is some revelation, one never stops learning, thank you Gerben
Alf.

LU1900 · 04-06-2008, 11:06 AM

.........

Vlim · 04-06-2008, 11:11 AM

Pretty rare, this box (if original).

They are test firing (proofing) rounds. The label has been cut pretty roughly, though, and the box being sealed makes inspection of the rounds a pretty difficult task.

Could be a fabrication, this one...

Went Blakely · 04-06-2008, 09:20 PM

thats a VERY nice box LU1900

04-03-2008, 06:31 PM	#1
dhusker User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Nebraska Posts: 44 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	WW ll Ammo I just purchased this box of 9mm ammo.....can anyone help me with a translation of the print on the box? I did figure out the word Pistolenpatronen.

04-05-2008, 02:17 AM	#7
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	Hi Gerben, the bullet on the right side the one with a flat nose, is it a pre 1945 round? Alf __________________ I prefer a Luger

04-05-2008, 04:23 PM	#9
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	Gerben, this shape.. do you know if it has been 'reproduced' in more lately produced ammunition by DWM? In the past, I have spent over a hundred flat nose bullets like that. I beleve they where produced by DWM as well.. just hope it wasn't ww1 ammo I wasted __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

04-05-2008, 05:33 PM	#10
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	Wow, that is some revelation, one never stops learning, thank you Gerben Alf. __________________ I prefer a Luger

04-06-2008, 11:06 AM	#11
LU1900 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: FRANCE Posts: 911 Thanks: 46 Thanked 471 Times in 198 Posts	......... __________________ Best regards from France...Patrice https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2016/03/1...nd-snail-drum/

04-03-2008, 07:47 PM	#2
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi, 16 Pistol cartridges with iron core. The steel cases (st+) were made in 1943. The package appears to have been repackaged/relabeled in 1944. If you can provide a clearer view of the 3-letter abbreviations we can probably tell you who made the components as well. Basically the label shows: -What type of rounds they are (in this case steel cases with a bullet with an iron core). -Who made the separate components (case, round, primer). -Who put all the stuff together. I can make out MOG and DNF: MOG = Deutsche Sprengchemie, Moschweig DNF = RWS, Durlach Plant. Nz.Stb.P. 08-08 stands for 'Nitrozellulose Stabchenpulver neuer Art' or 'Nitrocellulose powder, new version', a nitrocellulose powder which came in small rods, rather than the normal powder design. it's also shown in the sectioned view on the left (much coarser in shape than the powder on the right). The 08 - 08 represents the size of the grains, 0.8 mm in diameter and 0.8 mm long. 43/21 is lot number 21, made in 1943. The package is filled with the cartridge shown on the left, the steel cased 'Pistolenpatrone 08 m.E. (mit Eisenkern, with iron core). The cartridge on the right is the 'Pistolenpatrone 08 S.E. (Sintereisen, sintered steel).

04-03-2008, 08:03 PM	#3
dhusker User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Nebraska Posts: 44 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you for all the great info.......it is more than I hoped for. I have the opportunity to buy more at the same price. Is this ammo rare or is it easy to find?

04-03-2008, 08:23 PM	#4
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi, No problem, it's one of the few items I can handle over here without too much problems. The ammo is not getting cheaper, but there is still plenty around, sometimes even complete packing cases show up from old arsenal supplies. The quality is of such a nature that shooting it is a good way to ruin a perfectly good barrel pretty quickly, so it's strictly collecting ammo only, this stuff. I wouldn't pay top dollar for it, but if you can get some at a decent price it's always nice to have. And the large amount of suppliers and manufacturers makes it a collecting area in itself. I'm picking up part of a collection myself in a few weeks that consists of a little over 100 separate WW2 rounds so that will keep me busy for a while as well The WW1 era ammunition is more expensive, less boxes survived and less ammo survived. Especially the early DWM ammunition, with the trapezoid bullet, in original packing is hard to come by.

04-04-2008, 04:10 PM	#5
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Tac, A tragic waste. As with virtually everything, we need a separate collecting permit in order to keep live small arms ammunition (larger calibers are subject to permits as well, but must be completely inert). Membership of a cartridge collector's association is required. There should be a cartridge collector's club, associated with the ECRA in the UK, but they appear to have not discovered the internet yet...

04-04-2008, 05:57 PM	#6
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	What a shame Tac hate to tell you what they are worth now. I have been looking for some unopened boxes for years.

04-05-2008, 02:54 PM	#8
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Alf, Worse, it's pre-1916. The original P08 bullet had this truncated cone design. It was changed over to the ogival shape somewhere in 1916. The trommel magazines had feeding problems with the flat nose design. The conical round on the right is from 1917. This image shows the headstamps of both rounds, made by DWM: Left: The flat nose, 1915. Right: The conical version, 1917.

04-06-2008, 11:11 AM	#12
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Pretty rare, this box (if original). They are test firing (proofing) rounds. The label has been cut pretty roughly, though, and the box being sealed makes inspection of the rounds a pretty difficult task. Could be a fabrication, this one...

04-06-2008, 09:20 PM	#13
Went Blakely User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 231 Thanks: 4 Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts	thats a VERY nice box LU1900 __________________ Went Blakely