Luger Ammunition

[cirelaw]

Eric, I started collecting Luger ammunition. I was wondering the 'old chiken or egg'came first. Was D.W.M. first made ammunition. Im interested in the history of Luger Ammunition, i.e Test I noticed the swiss had it own pretty blue box. What ammunition and by whom manufactured and what changes if any followed the Luger throught its history, Finally did any of the test ammo survived, and what took its place.

[Sieger]

Hi Cirelaw:

I'd be very interested in following your progress and results. I believe there is a great deal of fantasy regarding the original German ammo from 1898 through 1945, and would like to clear things up for the record.

Sieger

[Vlim]

Hi Eric,

There is some uncertainty, but some safe assumptions we can make:

-The 'mother' of the 9mm parabellum, the .30 Mauser and the .30 Luger was the Borchardt cartridge. His challenge was to design a functional pistol cartridge and to design a pistol around it.

Mauser had it easier, as they based their .30 Mauser on the Borchardt design, which was marketed 3 years before the C/96 was.

Luger, while redesigning the grip shape of the Borchardt, shortened the Borchardt round to what is now the .30 luger cartridge. Swiss army tests helped to bring that round to life.

The 9mm parabellum again is basically the .30 luger case without the crimped neck so a larger round could be produced, increasing 'stopping power', the main drawback of the .30 luger cartridge.

The problem with those early rounds is that they are not dated. That makes it difficult to correctly determine the age of the round. They would only be marked DWM -K- and the case number (401, 403, etc...) or DM -K- with the case number.

It's not made easier because of the fact that DWM's ammunition branch in Karlsruhe was formerly using the DM (Deutsche Metallpatronenfabrik) abbreviation and kept using it well into WW1, besides using DWM as a marking.

Of all the variations, it's safe to say that the Borchardt and it's ammo hatched at the same time, as did the Borchardt/Luger and the .30 luger, and the 9mm Luger and it's ammo. Only the C/96 appears to have materialized after the cartridge.

The business of ammunition production in late 19th century Germany was complex. Following the Turkish contract for a large quantity of Mauser rifles and ammunition, the main contenders, Lorenz, Loewe, Mauser and the Rottweil-Hamburger Pulverfabriken decided to work together, rather than against each other.

Loewe and Duttenhofer (head of Rottweil) worked Mauser and Lorenz into a corner while obtaining large contracts for the Turkish and Prussian governments. Loewe and Duttenhofer took over Mauser and Lorenz, because although they got the contracts they knew very well they needed the experience from both Mauser and Lorenz to complete the contracts succesfully.

This led to a construction where the gun and ammunition branch of Loewe was merged with that of Lorenz to form DWM, of which both Loewe and Duttenhofer were major shareholders. Lorenz himself played no active role anymore.

Loewe and Duttenhofer dominated the local industry and their cartel meant they could divide large contracts between themselves, rather than compete. Basically, Ludwig Loewe & Cie. in Berlin supplied machinery, DWM in Karlsruhe made the cartridges and rounds and Duttenhofers powder companies supplied the powder.

[cirelaw]

Eric, I just wrote a wholearticle and had a powerful, This abbreviated,within 3 week of joingi was hooked up with and old german, who after seeing my test luger, sent, out or the blue, the second revised ammo, issued for my test luger'50 Patronem No 471, zur Selbstlade-Pistole Kal. 7,65mm PARABELLUM, FIRST pullup International Ammunition Association, They let member advertise for free, all you need to join is fillout a short form telling what kind of ammunition aruns you add for a year for $35.anyone so interested can call or eme 772-336-5312 snookem13@aol.com, im phych as you can buy a collection for uder fifty buck, just search 'collector ammunition'

[cirelaw]

First it a real pleasure, sharing a common a must lookup 'LANDOFBORCHARDT.COM' is the shinining gem of everything you ever wanted to know, You can pullup every ammo, dwm,Reminton, Remember hit the ACCESSORIES then AMMUNITION, and bring up every foreign, european varients, youll start looking at that old-timer, with tiny boxes, My first gunshow since my stroke and i hit a box of the third variant, Also these collectors are much more helpful and its great as ever box has a story, You get involved, ill send you a prewar sample Eric, Esq snookem13@aol.com

[cirelaw]

My mistake, annual dues are $25.00, Their site along with the luger ammunition, can be reviewed http://cartridgecollectors.org you can access the research for free, become a member for a mere $25.00,you get to run your add internationally. These guys are more into fun-for-all collecting,

[cirelaw]

I intend to publish an article on 'EARLY LUGER AMMUNITION AND ITS EVOLUTION' I have a Major in History and a Doctorate in Law, Juris Doctor, from Villanova School of Law, 1981, It dawned on my the Luger is only as powerful as its ammunition. After I first layed eyes on me, my 1900 Test Luger, #6786, it occured that a facinating, international topic has no where been address, with the help insight of our experts, finally a most important aspect of collecting may finally gain it rightful recognition, When asked of a fellow collector, a member of the International Ammunition Association, told me he collects ammunition, because he couldnt afford collecting lugers. I stress you join the I.A.A. for $25.00 a year,you will receive back issue of their magazine, and a whole section is written on the 9mm luger cartidge, i want your support and imput, as our ranks pass into older times, it would be a waste to let your insight, Gods gift to forever record your knowlege to the annuals of time. I hope that icons such a Ed Ron, Dwight to name a few, will volunteer their insight, history and hands on experience to lauch this non-profit project so that we all can re-learn for fr Eric J Bruning, Esq. snookem13@aol.com (772)336-5312 God Bless