Sporterized Krag

Karl · 07-19-2007, 08:24 PM

A new aquisition: 1898 Krag carbine on cut down rifle stock, Marble front sight blade, Redfield micrometer peep sight, excellent bore and headspacing - $285. I replaced the rotted sling, added missing safety lever (EBay), replaced recoil pad and added 3/4" of spacers to the butt.

I always wanted one of these. My father praised the Krag as a great hunting rifle due to accuracy and the fact than you can top off the magazine on the run with a round in the chamber. Ammo is in the mail. I hope to bring home some hogs with this gun come winter. KFS

Ron Smith · 07-19-2007, 10:34 PM

Karl,

The best damned hunting cartridge in the world. I've had several over the years. Back when you could run across the half sporterized Krags like yours for $75.00 to $125.00, I would buy them, fix them up and re-sell them. Very similar to what you have done. I even had a Ruger #1 that had been converted to a 30-30 cast bullet target rifle by a local doctor. I had it rechambered to 30-40 Krag. I killed several deer with it. Should have kept it.

I love these old Krags and the cartridge.

Ron

Edward Tinker · 07-20-2007, 03:02 AM

Karl, I picked up a sporterized 30-40 krag carbine 3 or 5 years ago, and it is a fine rifle. Neat design that just never got its chance.

Ed

Steinar · 07-20-2007, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ron Smith
[B]Back when you could run across the half sporterized Krags like yours for $75.00 to $125.00, I would buy them, fix them up and re-sell them.

Perhaps you should come to visit and bring back a souvenir?

Here is one for 136$ and two K98's for 126$
http://www.finn.no/finn/bap/object?f...46&WT.svl=Link
(nothing to do with be)
They are nice rifles.. with quite a bit of history in them. Don't like the up 'to the right'-thing about them when it rains. But besides that, it's still a good design after all those years.

Karl · 07-20-2007, 09:54 AM

Steiner,

It would make sense that the Krag is common in Norway. It had a much longer service life there, manufactured into the 1920's I think. When did the Norwegian army replace it? You are right about the magazine as a rain trap, I just won't hunt when it's raining.

The 30-40 Krag cartridge never caught on, despite the popularity of the weaker 30-30.
KFS

Ron Smith · 07-20-2007, 10:14 AM

Steinar and Karl,

I live in Oregon. Every gun is a rain trap here. If we didn't hunt in the rain, we would never get to hunt. I never noticed any out of the ordinary problems with Krags. We just shake the water out now and then.

Steinar,

I would love to pick up a few souvenirs at those prices. One of the favorite sporterized Krags I have had was a Norwegian 6.5x55. I wish I had all of them back now.

Ron

John Sabato · 07-20-2007, 04:29 PM

The Krag may **** on closing the bolt instead of the more modern Mauser and Springfield actions... but it is the SMOOTHEST operating bolt action I have ever handled... I have always liked them.

Steinar · 07-22-2007, 04:09 PM

It was a modern rifle of it's time and the bolt action is indeed smooth, but also turned the biggest weakness.
Rain into the magazine was just part of the problem. The cartridges get wet and when placed in the camber the rifle will go up to the right due to non-symetric locking knobs on the bolt. This problem is not found on the K98 that came later.
I have one myself, but since they are not legal for hunting here any more, I haven't fired it in years.. perhaps it's time to take it out again

Btw. 'Krag' is short for Krag JÃ?Â¸rgensen. It's taken from the two constuctors, the officer Ole Herman Krag and gunsmith Erik JÃ?Â¸rgensen from the norwegian army. Many thinks it is just one person..

Karl · 07-23-2007, 09:13 AM

Steiner,

I did not know about the offset point of impact with wet cartridges. When you initially said "up to the right thing" I thought you were just referring to the Krag magazine as compared to a standard magazine location. Since I've seen no mention of the offset on U.S. Krag internet sites, perhaps it is more pronounced with the Norwegian 6.5x55 cartridge. I also don't understand why a wet cartridge would behave differently, unless it doesn't "grip" the chamber when the fired case expands. KFS

Rod WMG · 07-23-2007, 05:28 PM

"I also don't understand why a wet cartridge would behave differently, unless it doesn't "grip" the chamber when the fired case expands. KFS"

I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't get this.

azlaw · 07-23-2007, 07:06 PM

Pretty much anything can affect point of impact. Water, grass, seeds, sticks, fouling, dust, oil, bugs, etc. We even have a species of bug out here in Arizona that likes to make its coccoon in small round holes - kaboom!

Water in the barrel of a rifle changes the resistance to the travel of the bullet through the barrel, thus changing the point of impact. Any material in the bore, such as powder residue or fouling, can absorb water thus increasing its size and resistance. Wet barrels can even be dangerous if there is enough water in them.

When hunting, I try to keep water out of my barrel as best I can, usually by dumping it out periodically. A couple of times the bullet in the chamber became discolored, or had a ring on it from the beginings of corrosion from water. This tells me to run a swab through the bore with a slight amount of oil on it. (This changes the point of impact too - some hunters insist on taking guns to the field with dirty bores from the sighting range) I have no idea what effect it actually has on point of impact, since I am not likely to conduct experiments. WWII GIs supposedly used condoms to keep water out of the rifle barrels, but it looks too silly for me, and the condom itself would affect the point of impact.

I have read about some bad accidents involving flooded barrels and "underwater shooting" experiments, but I have never seen one in person. A water-filled barrel is pretty much an obstructed barrel, and common sense says that this is a Bad Thing. I have heard that some guns are designed to fire underwater, but I have yet to see one do it.

H

Steinar · 07-25-2007, 12:11 PM

A Google search on "Krag JÃ?Â¸rgensen wet ammunition" would probably end up with some results that describes it better than what I can do. I have hunted quite a bit with the rifle, but don't feel qualified to describe it in detail.. On my rifle, the differense is the length of my fist on 100m. Some have more, others less.

Dwight Gruber · 07-25-2007, 01:21 PM

I could only find this reference http://www.frfrogspad.com/kragrifl.htm It mentions the phenomenon, but doesn't explain it. A couple of other Q&A-type forum links quoted this source.

--Dwight

Karl · 07-25-2007, 01:36 PM

Quote from www.frfrogspad.com/kragrifl.htm "While it is known for having the smoothest action of any rifle, its one locking lug action was not as strong as some of the other designs which utilized 2 or 3 lugs and made it susceptible to group stringing with wet ammunition because of unequal bolt face force." I still don't get it but it seems to be true. Ballistics is weird science.
KFS

Steinar · 07-25-2007, 03:34 PM

Karl, I would not think much of it. It's a shame walking trough life looking at the down side of things instead of the positive. With the Krag, there is plenty of the last. Congratulations with the acquisition, the stock looks fantastic.

This is one I inherited from my grandfather

The rear sight is removed, and a new one is welded on closer to the eye. Upper part is painted black. Probably to reduce reflection. And the extractor is worn out completely..
I'm thinking of fixing this up the rifle some day. It has killed about one hundred elg (similar to the moose) before it got 'retired' in the 90's, when it was no longer allowed for hunting.

Rod WMG · 07-25-2007, 04:25 PM

Steinar, what is the bag limit on elk for you? Would the 100 total mean that multiple kills were made in the same year?

In any case it's an enviable record for an old hunting tool. I like guns with character.

Steinar · 07-25-2007, 05:03 PM

Rod, as I was taking it out of the closet to take the photos.. I reflected; in average 1.5 elg's every year in use by my grandfather, father or me. Ending up with about one hundred. So it's a very well used rifle! The last years I used it, I kept a screwdriver in my pocket to take out the used shell..
I learned to shoot with this rifle, so it brings out good memories

As to bag limit.. I set the limit on my property, about 3 cows and 2 one-year olds each year. The population is going up every year, so will probably set it up with one ox and one cow next season.
We are having some problems with cars crashing into them, so it's for better safety also

Rod WMG · 07-25-2007, 06:22 PM

Wow, Steinar, that's a lot of elg! I wish I had that amount to use my various guns on for research and eating. Sounds like you and your relatives are/were very good hunters.

Rifles from our early years are special for sure!

wlyon · 07-25-2007, 10:32 PM

My 30-40 Krag 18" barrel, full-length birdseye maple stock. Nice actions, but not overly strong. I use downloaded hand loads.

Ron Smith · 07-26-2007, 09:35 AM

Steinar,

Your Elk are a species of what we call Moose, I believe. Am I correct?

I recall an old photo of the rack (antlers) of the largest Elk taken in the U.S. It used to hang in a saloon in Greeley, Colorado. The rifle that it was taken with was also on the rack. It was a full dress military issue 30-40 Krag rifle.

Ron

07-19-2007, 10:34 PM	#2
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Karl, The best damned hunting cartridge in the world. I've had several over the years. Back when you could run across the half sporterized Krags like yours for $75.00 to $125.00, I would buy them, fix them up and re-sell them. Very similar to what you have done. I even had a Ruger #1 that had been converted to a 30-30 cast bullet target rifle by a local doctor. I had it rechambered to 30-40 Krag. I killed several deer with it. Should have kept it. I love these old Krags and the cartridge. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

07-20-2007, 03:02 AM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Karl, I picked up a sporterized 30-40 krag carbine 3 or 5 years ago, and it is a fine rifle. Neat design that just never got its chance. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-20-2007, 10:14 AM	#6
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Steinar and Karl, I live in Oregon. Every gun is a rain trap here. If we didn't hunt in the rain, we would never get to hunt. I never noticed any out of the ordinary problems with Krags. We just shake the water out now and then. Steinar, I would love to pick up a few souvenirs at those prices. One of the favorite sporterized Krags I have had was a Norwegian 6.5x55. I wish I had all of them back now. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

07-20-2007, 04:29 PM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	The Krag may ** on closing the bolt instead of the more modern Mauser and Springfield actions... but it is the SMOOTHEST operating bolt action I have ever handled... I have always liked them. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL and are endowed by their Creator** with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-22-2007, 04:09 PM	#8
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	It was a modern rifle of it's time and the bolt action is indeed smooth, but also turned the biggest weakness. Rain into the magazine was just part of the problem. The cartridges get wet and when placed in the camber the rifle will go up to the right due to non-symetric locking knobs on the bolt. This problem is not found on the K98 that came later. I have one myself, but since they are not legal for hunting here any more, I haven't fired it in years.. perhaps it's time to take it out again Btw. 'Krag' is short for Krag JÃ?Â¸rgensen. It's taken from the two constuctors, the officer Ole Herman Krag and gunsmith Erik JÃ?Â¸rgensen from the norwegian army. Many thinks it is just one person.. __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

07-19-2007, 08:24 PM	#1
Karl Lifer - Twice Over Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Savannah Posts: 530 Thanks: 0 Thanked 280 Times in 123 Posts	Sporterized Krag A new aquisition: 1898 Krag carbine on cut down rifle stock, Marble front sight blade, Redfield micrometer peep sight, excellent bore and headspacing - $285. I replaced the rotted sling, added missing safety lever (EBay), replaced recoil pad and added 3/4" of spacers to the butt. I always wanted one of these. My father praised the Krag as a great hunting rifle due to accuracy and the fact than you can top off the magazine on the run with a round in the chamber. Ammo is in the mail. I hope to bring home some hogs with this gun come winter. KFS

07-20-2007, 09:54 AM	#5
Karl Lifer - Twice Over Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Savannah Posts: 530 Thanks: 0 Thanked 280 Times in 123 Posts	Steiner, It would make sense that the Krag is common in Norway. It had a much longer service life there, manufactured into the 1920's I think. When did the Norwegian army replace it? You are right about the magazine as a rain trap, I just won't hunt when it's raining. The 30-40 Krag cartridge never caught on, despite the popularity of the weaker 30-30. KFS

07-23-2007, 09:13 AM	#9
Karl Lifer - Twice Over Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Savannah Posts: 530 Thanks: 0 Thanked 280 Times in 123 Posts	Steiner, I did not know about the offset point of impact with wet cartridges. When you initially said "up to the right thing" I thought you were just referring to the Krag magazine as compared to a standard magazine location. Since I've seen no mention of the offset on U.S. Krag internet sites, perhaps it is more pronounced with the Norwegian 6.5x55 cartridge. I also don't understand why a wet cartridge would behave differently, unless it doesn't "grip" the chamber when the fired case expands. KFS

07-23-2007, 05:28 PM	#10
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	"I also don't understand why a wet cartridge would behave differently, unless it doesn't "grip" the chamber when the fired case expands. KFS" I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't get this.

07-23-2007, 07:06 PM	#11
azlaw User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 207 Thanks: 1 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Pretty much anything can affect point of impact. Water, grass, seeds, sticks, fouling, dust, oil, bugs, etc. We even have a species of bug out here in Arizona that likes to make its coccoon in small round holes - kaboom! Water in the barrel of a rifle changes the resistance to the travel of the bullet through the barrel, thus changing the point of impact. Any material in the bore, such as powder residue or fouling, can absorb water thus increasing its size and resistance. Wet barrels can even be dangerous if there is enough water in them. When hunting, I try to keep water out of my barrel as best I can, usually by dumping it out periodically. A couple of times the bullet in the chamber became discolored, or had a ring on it from the beginings of corrosion from water. This tells me to run a swab through the bore with a slight amount of oil on it. (This changes the point of impact too - some hunters insist on taking guns to the field with dirty bores from the sighting range) I have no idea what effect it actually has on point of impact, since I am not likely to conduct experiments. WWII GIs supposedly used condoms to keep water out of the rifle barrels, but it looks too silly for me, and the condom itself would affect the point of impact. I have read about some bad accidents involving flooded barrels and "underwater shooting" experiments, but I have never seen one in person. A water-filled barrel is pretty much an obstructed barrel, and common sense says that this is a Bad Thing. I have heard that some guns are designed to fire underwater, but I have yet to see one do it. H

07-25-2007, 12:11 PM	#12
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	A Google search on "Krag JÃ?Â¸rgensen wet ammunition" would probably end up with some results that describes it better than what I can do. I have hunted quite a bit with the rifle, but don't feel qualified to describe it in detail.. On my rifle, the differense is the length of my fist on 100m. Some have more, others less. __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

07-25-2007, 01:21 PM	#13
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	I could only find this reference http://www.frfrogspad.com/kragrifl.htm It mentions the phenomenon, but doesn't explain it. A couple of other Q&A-type forum links quoted this source. --Dwight

07-25-2007, 01:36 PM	#14
Karl Lifer - Twice Over Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Savannah Posts: 530 Thanks: 0 Thanked 280 Times in 123 Posts	Quote from www.frfrogspad.com/kragrifl.htm "While it is known for having the smoothest action of any rifle, its one locking lug action was not as strong as some of the other designs which utilized 2 or 3 lugs and made it susceptible to group stringing with wet ammunition because of unequal bolt face force." I still don't get it but it seems to be true. Ballistics is weird science. KFS

07-25-2007, 03:34 PM	#15
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	Karl, I would not think much of it. It's a shame walking trough life looking at the down side of things instead of the positive. With the Krag, there is plenty of the last. Congratulations with the acquisition, the stock looks fantastic. This is one I inherited from my grandfather The rear sight is removed, and a new one is welded on closer to the eye. Upper part is painted black. Probably to reduce reflection. And the extractor is worn out completely.. I'm thinking of fixing this up the rifle some day. It has killed about one hundred elg (similar to the moose) before it got 'retired' in the 90's, when it was no longer allowed for hunting. __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

07-25-2007, 04:25 PM	#16
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Steinar, what is the bag limit on elk for you? Would the 100 total mean that multiple kills were made in the same year? In any case it's an enviable record for an old hunting tool. I like guns with character.

07-25-2007, 05:03 PM	#17
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	Rod, as I was taking it out of the closet to take the photos.. I reflected; in average 1.5 elg's every year in use by my grandfather, father or me. Ending up with about one hundred. So it's a very well used rifle! The last years I used it, I kept a screwdriver in my pocket to take out the used shell.. I learned to shoot with this rifle, so it brings out good memories As to bag limit.. I set the limit on my property, about 3 cows and 2 one-year olds each year. The population is going up every year, so will probably set it up with one ox and one cow next season. We are having some problems with cars crashing into them, so it's for better safety also __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

07-25-2007, 06:22 PM	#18
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Wow, Steinar, that's a lot of elg! I wish I had that amount to use my various guns on for research and eating. Sounds like you and your relatives are/were very good hunters. Rifles from our early years are special for sure!

07-25-2007, 10:32 PM	#19
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,655 Thanks: 3,212 Thanked 2,619 Times in 971 Posts	My 30-40 Krag 18" barrel, full-length birdseye maple stock. Nice actions, but not overly strong. I use downloaded hand loads. __________________ Bill Lyon

07-26-2007, 09:35 AM	#20
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Steinar, Your Elk are a species of what we call Moose, I believe. Am I correct? I recall an old photo of the rack (antlers) of the largest Elk taken in the U.S. It used to hang in a saloon in Greeley, Colorado. The rifle that it was taken with was also on the rack. It was a full dress military issue 30-40 Krag rifle. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...