Dumb question # 1242

[davidkachel]

OK, I can't believe I didn't notice it until now, but...

Today I had my S/42 and my 1970's era Mauser Luger out at the same time, for the first time. (The 70's Mauser is still unfired, so at least I have some excuse.)

Gesichert is in opposite directions with these two guns (that is to say, above on one and below on the other)!

Am I in the twilight zone? What gives?

Seems like an excellent way to lose a toe or two. (And yes, I searched the forum first and found nothing.)

[Edward Tinker]

does your 1970's mauser have a grip safety?

[davidkachel]

Originally posted by Edward Tinker
does your 1970's mauser have a grip safety?

Yes

[Edward Tinker]

Grip safety, safties go the opposite direction...

[davidkachel]

Originally posted by Edward Tinker
Grip safety, safties go the opposite direction...

Ah, so this was true of all Lugers? W/O goes one direction and WITH goes the other?

Do a lot of German vets have four toes on one foot?

[Edward Tinker]

not sure. The 1906 "model" is not near as common, as compared to the 1908 model. So although I am sure there are many 1906 types brought back, the 1908 model would be what, maybe 1.5 or 1.8 million to maybe a hundred thousand or less 1906 models from WW1 and WW2 eras? And that guess is counting ALL types of 1906's made. Many for US sales and other country's, but not German military (there were 1904 navy which have a grip safety and a few others, but the vast majority were 1908 models).

Plus, many commericial type wasn't what was issued to Germans (1906 type were for Brazilian and the Netherlands, and others I am sure.

[davidkachel]

So it's possible there may be grip safety Lugers with safeties that go one direction, but others that go the opposite direction? And the same might be true of non-grip safety Lugers?
My brain is hurting.

[Edward Tinker]

no, grip safety's go one direction, 1908 models go the other direction (if I am remembering right...)

[davidkachel]

Got it. All grip safety models go one direction. All non-grip safety models go the other.
If a guy shows up at your door one day and asks you to count his toes.... <grin>

Thanks Ed. I feel better educated, though not any smarter.
Why did they do this? It seems irrational to say the least.

[Edward Tinker]

heck David, I don't know Someone like Ron or Dwight might know better. And that there might be exceptions to the rule, but I don't think so. I do know that the german gov't asked for several modifications being taken out, that were added back later, hold open, and something else.

Irrationally, I go by memory and it is sometimes faulty when I post, but usually I am not far off

[ken d]

The 1906 navy grip safety operrates opposite to the 1970 Mauser grip.
safety.

Regards Ken D

[Edward Tinker]

see Ken, I "knew" there'd be exceptions. Am I wrong on other 1906 models and I'm being a dummy tonight?

[ken d]

Ed:

My 06 Navies are safety in rhe Down position, all other 06's I checked
are safety in the UP position, as is the 1970 Mauser.

Regards Ken D

[Edward Tinker]

thanks Ken, I was thinking I was being an idiot.

[ken d]

No way Ed, just another Luger exception.

Regards Ken D

[Dwight Gruber]

Here's a handy list:

1900 all models:
thumb safety up (including Bulgarian)

1902 all models:
thumb safety up

1904 Navy:
thumb safety up

1906 Navy:
First Issue thumb safety up
First Issue altered thumb safety down
Second Issue thumb safety down

1906 Commercial all models:
thumb safety up (the first 2,000 or so marked GESICHERT; the rest polished)

Occasional Swiss-style grip safety guns found strewn within the Commercial range, thumb safety up

All non-grip-safety models:
thumb safety down

--Dwight

[Edward Tinker]

thank you dwight, great listing.

And a 1908 does what...

[davidkachel]

I can't think of any other firearm where in part of the production, the safety worked in the opposite direction from the rest. Of course I didn't know that here, but still, this is very strange.

Has to be a bureaucrat involved in this!

[Dwight Gruber]

Originally posted by Edward Tinker
And a 1908 does what...

Goes down. Added.

--Dwight

[Ron Wood]

David,
I donâ??t think you can blame this one on the bureaucrats. Actually if you think about it there is logic to the various safety position changes. Take the 1911 .45 for instanceâ?¦to take it off safe you press down. This is kind of a natural motion with your shooting hand. As you can see from Dwightâ??s list, you had to move the safety down on the 1904 and 1906 First Issue Navy model to ready it to fire, just like the Colt. However, on the Luger the thumb safety is a relatively long lever with a pronounced raised portion at the end, and positioned on the rear of the frame such that it was pretty easy to knock it off safe when holstering the gun. Therefore, many of the First Issue Navies were altered to place it on safe in the down position, and the Second Issue was made that way. Since the Navy grip safety models were intended to be carried in a holster, this was strictly a military adaptation. Commercial grip safety models continued to be made with the thumb safety up, presumably because it was not as likely the guns would be holstered and/or not subject to combat conditions that would make this feature important.

With the elimination of the grip safety, the mechanics of the thumb safety directly connected to the sear blocking tab dictated that the thumb safety has to be in the down position to place it on safe, so it was not possible to restore a natural â??press down to take off safeâ?� action. And thatâ??s the way it stayed for the rest of Luger production.